Front sphere hell !!!!

ItDontGo · Post by **ItDontGo** » 25 Sep 2005, 17:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
It's kind of like someone saying "see, I stuck my finger in an electrical socket and it didnt kill me, so it must be ok".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Its not though because, unless he is made of rubber, the first person wont get away with sticking his fingers in an electrical socket so we wont have the opportunity to say 'Well it must be OK because he did it'. So its nothing like saying that.
Just bursting a pressure vessel doesn't mean it will blow apart like a balloon. Balloons are elastic and so suffer elastic failure modes with little plastic yielding. A steel pressure vessel made of unhardened steel will yeild along a crack face absorbing energy so probably wont blow apart. Usually PVs are designed to fail plastically for this reason.
The worst thing that will happen is that it might make a loud banging noise which might make your ears wgistle for a while. In fact I would recommend the safety precaution of wearing ear plugs.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Sep 2005, 17:48

i do know people have used an old motor bike chain threaded through a large ring spanner works quite well as a makeshift sphere removing tool,even if you depresurise the system fully when the sphere is completly deflated and full of LHM it will still hold a lot of presure,also the spheres seem to grow tight over time regardless of how tight they are fitted,all the yeras i have worked in the garage trade i have seen people come to work in workshops that i have worked in,who have qualified at uni got it all on paper but havent got a clue when it comes to using there hands
regards malcolm

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 25 Sep 2005, 18:11

Some good answers for and against drilling spheres and I think the jury's out to be honest. There are some great pictures on here somewhere, where tools have been created to do the job 'properly' if you have time to search.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am now going to make a really decent tool before attempting the accumulator and rears...................<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Great idea! You now have the time and experience to find a better way to do the job

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 25 Sep 2005, 18:16

JSH, there's a great thread in Handy Hints and Tips on making your own tool with some nifty pictures. I always tend to go in there first because there is some great advice waiting to be tapped from very experienced users.
Here it is, follow this link

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Sep 2005, 18:20

if your owning a cit and you want to have a go at(bodging woops fixing) it on a regular bases stop being cheepskates an buy a proper tool
regards malcolm

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 25 Sep 2005, 18:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by citronut

if your owning a cit and you want to have a go at(bodging woops fixing) it on a regular bases stop being cheepskates an buy a proper tool
regards malcolm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think this is a good point. If I were doing loads I would. If I have the time, making one like those shown here is a great alternative. AT the time I did mine, I was in between moving homes, had no workshop and needed a car desperado. I contacted Plaiedes who told me getting the right tool to me would take several days. An hour of chiselling didn;t help, hence the last resort of drilling, which was done slowly and carefully.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Sep 2005, 21:12

yes but you can get a stanly 30cm chain pipe wrench from your local genral tool shop
regards malcolm

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 25 Sep 2005, 21:20

How much?

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Sep 2005, 22:43

i dont now how much they are now as i bought mine quite a few yeras ago,try looking up stanly tool on the net,it might give you a list of sellers
regards malcolm

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Sep 2005, 23:42

i have just looked on the net,try alibaba.com im not sure if the public can purchase from this site but it might be worth a look,also there are some on ebay item Nos7548467160 and 7548842654,the secnd one looks like mine but im not sure if its the same size
regards malcolm

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 26 Sep 2005, 02:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ItDontGo

DONT DRILL SPHERES YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAIN TO DIE AND MAYBE KILL EVERYONE AROUND YOU WITHIN A MILE
The initial poster is obviously posting from beyond the grave isn't he. As was the next guy who suggested it. Or maybe drilling a sphere isn't as deadly as some people are making out. Do we have some health and safety inspectors posting here or what?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't find the tone of your posts very amusing "ItDontGo". Safety is not a joke, and I'm being quite serious in my posts. Yes I could have been a bit more diplomatic, (I appologise to kafkaian) but the fact remains that it is a very unwise thing to do.
Are you now going to start advocating people work beneath their Citroen's without axle stands or ramps just because 99% of the time the suspension will stay up and will not fall on them ? Yes you will get away with it nearly every time without incident, and then the one time that you get caught out due to a fault in the suspension or due to not completely understanding the working of suspension, *SPLAT*.
Safety is all about taking reasonable precautions, and not taking unnecessary risks, and while you're free to take as many risks as you like in your own backyard, advocating things that are dangerous to other, possibly less skilled readers than yourself is irresponsible.
Although there are a number of "regulars" here that know better, there is also a steady flow of "newbies" to these forums, and many of them probably don't even post at all - they just use the search function and take what they find as gospel.
Regards,
Simon

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 26 Sep 2005, 03:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mandrake

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ItDontGo

DONT DRILL SPHERES YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAIN TO DIE AND MAYBE KILL EVERYONE AROUND YOU WITHIN A MILE
The initial poster is obviously posting from beyond the grave isn't he. As was the next guy who suggested it. Or maybe drilling a sphere isn't as deadly as some people are making out. Do we have some health and safety inspectors posting here or what?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't find the tone of your posts very amusing "ItDontGo". Safety is not a joke, and I'm being quite serious in my posts. Yes I could have been a bit more diplomatic, (I appologise to kafkaian) but the fact remains that it is a very unwise thing to do.
Are you now going to start advocating people work beneath their Citroen's without axle stands or ramps just because 99% of the time the suspension will stay up and will not fall on them ? Yes you will get away with it nearly every time without incident, and then the one time that you get caught out due to a fault in the suspension or due to not completely understanding the working of suspension, *SPLAT*.
Safety is all about taking reasonable precautions, and not taking unnecessary risks, and while you're free to take as many risks as you like in your own backyard, advocating things that are dangerous to other, possibly less skilled readers than yourself is irresponsible.
Although there are a number of "regulars" here that know better, there is also a steady flow of "newbies" to these forums, and many of them probably don't even post at all - they just use the search function and take what they find as gospel.
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've got to agree with you on this one.
I would not want to here about someone having an accident with techniques that they had heard about from our forum. [:o)]
Please take care guys. [;)]

kafkaian · Post by **kafkaian** » 26 Sep 2005, 03:38

Let's just be a little kinder to each other. I subscribe to many forums and the reason I like this prticular one is because people are generally mature and get on with the task of talking cars and help each other out.
Mandrake is correct to highlight the problems facing newbies who might attempt potentially dangerous operations with sincere but dangerous gusto, but we also have to respect those that take informed decisions without deriding them in public - and if one takes suitable precautions then it is not unwise to drill into the spheres.
The good thing about this debate is that it's reminded me to not just respond with a, "yeah I did that", but also to inform of the inherent risks without the assumption that the facts are known.
I'd probably tell you that's it's "unwise" to base jump given the inherent risks and desperate fatality figures, but I'd defend your right to do it!

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 26 Sep 2005, 03:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kafkaian

Let's just be a little kinder to each other. I subscribe to many forums and the reason I like this prticular one is because people are generally mature and get on with the task of talking cars and help each other out.
Mandrake is correct to highlight the problems facing newbies who might attempt potentially dangerous operations with sincere but dangerous gusto, but we also have to respect those that take informed decisions without deriding them in public - and if one takes suitable precautions then it is not unwise to drill into the spheres.
The good thing about this debate is that it's reminded me to not just respond with a, "yeah I did that", but also to inform of the inherent risks without the assumption that the facts are known.
I'd probably tell you that's it's "unwise" to base jump given the inherent risks and desperate fatality figures, but I'd defend your right to do it!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Point taken. I had thought about doing this myself but remembered the 5ft breaker bar at work. [:D]
Regards

DLM · Post by **DLM** » 26 Sep 2005, 04:44

My experience is that if the diaphragm on a sphere has punctured, then the released gas can make a mockery of attempts at sphere removal in some cases, even on a front sphere. The initial "cracking" of the sphere under full system pressure goes as normal, but even when the 12mm pressure regulator nut is loosened to relieve pressure, there seemsd to be residual pressure in the system, leading to a sphere that's very reluctant to move.
In addition removal becomes a throughly messy job. I've found the best approach in these circumstances is patience: a BX I left for several days became much easier to cope with.