Are we going to have a fuel shortage?

bad driver · Post by **bad driver** » 13 Sep 2005, 19:34

They dont charge airlines because they will simply fill up when they are in another country, cars sadly cannot do this. As far as banning 4x4's or setting rules about mpg go, Why? if you do that you are only punishing the motorist that enjoys them kind of vehicles and also half the motorsports in the uk would be stopped. There is only one sensible answer and that is bio fuels, the goverment has to swallow its own B/S about cars hurting the enviroment and start encouraging farmers to grow bio fuel products. After all farmers are struggling anyway, I'm sure a huge increase of crop demand will be beneficial to them. Why the hell is the UK the only country in the EU that doesnt support bio fuel? We are paying taxes on them which simply puts off potential producers when other goverments have left it tax free and encourages everyone to look for alternatives to fossil fuel.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 13 Sep 2005, 19:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why the hell is the UK the only country in the EU that doesnt support bio fuel? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because they are obsessed with LPG!!!!!
I would suspect there are probably more illegit users of veggie oil than legit LPG users on the road-I only know one person who has a car that can use LPG, and there are no queues at the LPG pumps......
There is an EC directive now that all EC countries should be aiming for at least 5% bio component in diesel, like in France, Germany, etc-they were on about it on the radio this morning- but the UK government is suffering from the same sort of anti European inertia that created the fridge mountain.

paranoid · Post by **paranoid** » 13 Sep 2005, 20:24

Local Aldi was very low on Veggy oil yesterday afternoon (bought a couple of gallon for emergencys[;)])

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 13 Sep 2005, 20:31

Have driven through Cheshire/North Wales today, most petrol stations have the signs up and forecourts taped off, lots of bad queing onto roads early this morning, panic buying seems the order of the day.
Stewart

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 13 Sep 2005, 20:36

Most 4x4s never engage 4 wheel drive. so why waste fuel carrying all the unused and unneeded machinery around. And without all the unnecessary extras they could be made smaller and much lighter. That is the basis of my objection to them.
If they made a basic, inexpensive, tall (good visibility from drivers seat) diesel engined, economic, stable, reliable, front wheel drive, 5 seater hatchback, and in my case, automatic, then I would be driving one. [:D] [^]
Homer, the Mazda isn't actually mine, I just get the job of looking after it [:(], it actually belongs to a lady friend, I may well have bought it, as its a super car to drive, and in fact returns 36+ mpg at 70 mph on motorways, where it spends most of its time. but due to having had hip replacements resulting in very limited hip movement, its far too low for me, I have a job to get in and out of it, especially if its parked against a high kerb!, That is also the reason that I have to drive an automatic, it's not entirely a matter of personal preference.
.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 13 Sep 2005, 22:39

I think one particular point has been missed here. That is that it takes more energy, and is a far greater environmental burden to actually make a car that that car is throughout it's lifetime.
What would be a very sensible thing for the government to do would be to make cars extortionatly expensive. This would mean that second hand cars would go up hugely in value, and it would make sense to keep older cars on the road. That way, we reduce the "throwaway" culture, and reduce the number of cars both being manufactured, and being scrapped.

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 13 Sep 2005, 23:44

Try this place
http://www.petroldirect.com/index.htm

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 14 Sep 2005, 00:02

Right, banning 4x4s. Pointless. Maybe they should tax people for owing trophy wives ie the drivers of Cayenne's etc! Cut the pay of footballers and you'd improve the state of the environment!
Seriously though, we do need much more emphasis on bio-fuels and I don't just mean diesel. If Brazil has been able to run cars on bio-ethanol for many years, why can't we do it here? British Sugar have applied for planning permission to create a site to create this very fuel. Might need to make a few mods to the engine but I'm sure it could be done and there's the bonus that it's better for the environment and leaves us less dependent on oil rich nations. Oil prices will not come down in a hurry, just as house prices won't. Demand is far too high. So, let's stop protesting and start lobbying for more investment in greener fuels. Imagine if the amount of money we wasted on following Bush into battle was used for investigation into other fuels instead?
Sorry, this has got more political than I was intending!

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 14 Sep 2005, 00:05

My names Ben Elton, goodnight.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 14 Sep 2005, 03:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bad driverWhy the hell is the UK the only country in the EU that doesnt support bio fuel?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Biofuels are supported in the UK, thats why biodiesel gets a 20p per litre tax break over mineral diesel. There is one company I know of that is constructing a plant to make biodiesel on a useful scale, it's at Seal Sands, Middlesborough (in the north east of england).
http://www.biofuelscorp.com/
There is also the matter of oil seed rape being subsidised, but that is EU CAP rather than being a UK initiative.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fastandfurryous
it would make sense to keep older cars on the road<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is a bit of a double edged sword, older cars can be more polluting, especially if they're becoming old and worn out. The cars would need to be designed and built for a long life, and designed so that their emissions didn't deteriorate with age. We'd also have to seriously look at retrofitting newer emissions technology to older cars, but then there is the question of replacing parts of older cars with new parts, and how much of the older car is actually older car and not new car.
In reality it will never happen, a lot of people have a new car every year or every 2 years, to that sort of person a car is a status symbol and a fashion statement, hence the 4x4, the coupe and the convertable. I haven't mentioned crash safety or performance yet...

dillosk8ter · Post by **dillosk8ter** » 14 Sep 2005, 04:51

The way fuel prices are going Im definatly going to be driving alot less!! I'll be using public transport alot more, walking where possible, cycling also. When I can afford to im going to upgrade to a much more fuel efficient car..eg Smart, baby Fiat.....even 2cv!!

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 14 Sep 2005, 05:44

You can get slower and more economical that a 1.4 BX [:D] [:D] Can it do more than 60km/h ??? [}:)] [:p]
Seriously guys, there is no easy answer to this one. We have ethonol blended fuels. Without goverment subsities it probably wouldn't be effecient to grow the stuff. Not to mention you need to grow it, process and refine the stuff.... It probably would have been less environmental burden just to use the fossil fuel (??? I don't know ???).
Biodeisel is in much the same boat. Without the massive taxes on deisel it would be fffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr cheaper than the biodeisel. Once again we have to grow the plants (using vast quantities of water ... water being something that is hard to get in quantities now with the endless draughts), refine it back to oil, then process it.
Australia has some stupedously huge (ie: MASSIVE) reserves of LPG ... If the government cared even in the slightest about the environment they would be forcing us all onto LPG and requiring all cars to carry an LPG tank (not to mention they could slash the price of LPG making it very cost effective). The government however if far more interested in tax income from petrol than the enviroment.
For those that do not realise, LPG is a very clean burning gas.
seeya,
Shane L.

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 14 Sep 2005, 19:32

Ah, the 2cv is a good move although it should be pointed out that with a range of only 200 miles, it isn't the prayer-answerer you may think in these troubled times!
Still got half a tank in mine which is good to get me to work and back a couple of times! 50 miles a day so I need to refuel after 4 days!
Why not get a C1? Funky looking, very economical and a big help from Toyota which should ensure reliability. Perhaps...

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 14 Sep 2005, 19:34

Oh and LPG is great if you have somewhere to put the tank! I personally like that space behind the back seats - useful for luggage n stuff! Underfloor tanks are popular on off roaders which seems silly as I have heard of someone rupturing their tank off road!! Yes, quite a few 4x4 owners actually do use them for their intended purpose. Just not enough of them!

Jim_Reaper · Post by **Jim_Reaper** » 14 Sep 2005, 19:48

If we all drove around without using the lights (esp fog lights in daytime) and relied on street lighting, without the additional drag on the alternator it would save us about a cupfull of petrol every year - enough to get to the bottom of our road then[;)][:o)][:o)]