Urgent suspension problem HELP!! FIXED!

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Mandrake
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Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by patneenan</i>

I 've done some more investigation and turned the car on , susp had settled and light was on.
As I sat reading the B.O.L. after 5 mins I noticed the stop light had started flickering, so I revved it up a bit and the light slowly went out , only to come on again as the revs settled back down. AHA I thought, could it be pump drive belt ( as perviously mentioned ) or the pump on its way out.
If I rev it up to about 2000 rpm the light will eventually go out and car will start to go up, but back on idle the STOP comes back on.
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Sounds like a pressure leak to me.
Try the following:
Let the engine run at 2000rpm as you've described, and wait until the car lifts up to its normal height at both ends (assuming it can do this)
Then let the revs go back to idle. If the STOP light then comes on shortly afterwards you definately have a pressure leak, not a faulty pump.
Once the suspension is up to operating height and the main regulator is up to operating pressure, it should never drop below the pressure needed to keep the STOP light off - doing so is a sign that the pressure is leaking away faster than the pump can top it up.
Another slightly different variation on that test, try setting the manual height control lever to the fully DOWN position, do the same thing, run the engine at 2000rpm until the STOP light is out, plus a few seconds, then let it go back to idle. If the STOP light comes back on again, there is definately a pressure leak.
The first two things to check as mentioned by others, is the pressure release valve, (behind the bleed screw - careful not to lose the steel ball!! It will fall/fly out if you remove the bolt!) and the non-return valve. (Another steel ball behind a small plate in the housing only visible after the accumulator sphere is removed)
If it does eventually stabalize with the stop light staying out, then it could be low delivery by the pump - first thing to check is air leaks in the fat hose from the LHM tank to the pump.
Another thing that you could do is observe the overflow pipes going back into the LHM resoviour to see which one has a lot of return flow - when the car is pressurizing and trying to lift up the only one that should have any significant overflow is the one coming from the power steering rack, the others shouldn't have any flow in those circumstances.
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How do you adjust the belt to the H.P. pump and what is the travel on the belt.? Is it straightforward to do ,by a dunce like me?
The B.O.L. says something about an electronic tool to adjust the belt tension!!
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Well it would help if you started by telling us what engine you have. [:D]
The hydraulic pump runs off the auxillary belt not the timing belt, and on the 2 litre 8 valve petrol engine (the only one I've done an auxillary belt on) the auxillary belt has a spring loaded automatic tensioner, so there is nothing that needs adjusting.
The electronic tool they mention is for the timing belt. (And its debatable whether anyone actually uses one for that anyway)
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If it is the pump that's on its way out can the pressure be tested and how?
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Unlikely to be the pump, it sounds more like the pump is either sucking in a bit of air, (parking the car on an angle may affect the ability of the pump to stay primed if there is a small air leak) in which case you could test that by temporarily replacing the large intake hose from the tank to the pump with some clear hose so you can watch for bubbles, and also see whether it fixes the problem.
Or, it could be something leaking the high pressure away faster than the pump can top it up when only running at 800rpm. In which case you should be able to find what device is doing that by looking for an active overflow back into the tank and tracing it back to the source. (Remember the power steering rack always has overflow while idling, so ignore that one)
I'm not sure if the Haynes book identifies which overflow pipes go where, so unless someone here has some info on that it may be difficult to trace where they go...
Regards,
Simon
patneenan
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Post by patneenan »

O.K. Guys , I am now going to get some clear garden hose and attach to pump and lhm reservoir.
I can then check for bubbles.
As I said yesterday revving to 2000 rpm allows the car to rise , albeit slowly, and for the light to go out. But as the revs drop to 800 rpm the light flickers and comes back on.
The pressure release screw is tight , the ball bearing is there (I suppose, as I've never fully unscrewed it and it worked before).
So I think Simon maybe onto something.
How do I know which of the return hoses is which, as they disappear down into the engine bay and i cant follow them ?
Will let you know along the day how I'm getting on
Thanks for your input
citronut
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Post by citronut »

if air is getting in to main pick up hose to pump it would most certainly leak a lot of LHM,as you seem to get susp up when car is tillted this must mean you have not got enough fluid in the tank,so when you tilt car fluid is moving under the pick up in the tank
regards malcolm
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Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by citronut</i>

if air is getting in to main pick up hose to pump it would most certainly leak a lot of LHM,as you seem to get susp up when car is tillted this must mean you have not got enough fluid in the tank,so when you tilt car fluid is moving under the pick up in the tank
regards malcolm
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If the air leak is above the level of the tank (for example where the hose attaches to the tank) then you wouldn't get a visible leak of LHM. While the pump is not running the LHM in the top section of hose would run back into the tank, and while the pump is running the suction will draw air in, LHM wont get out. Looking for cracks where the hose attaches to the tank would be the first thing to check.
If there is a leak, replacing it with the clear hose will fix the problem. And then a proper replacement can be obtained.
I have to admit though it does also sound a bit like the tank is a bit low on LHM if parking the car on a slope helps. The clear hose will help here - if the tank really is low in oil when parked on level ground there will be very obvious bubbles of air traveling up the clear hose in that situation...
Oh by the way pat, when you connect the clear hose, it needs to be primed, so attach it to the pump end first, then before attaching it to the tank end pour LHM down the hose until it is full as near to the top as possible before connecting it to the tank.
The type of pump it is can't prime itself if the hose is empty, which is why air leaks can be such a big problem. (Quite apart from getting air into the hydraulic circuits)
Regards,
Simon
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Post by patneenan »

Well GOOD NEWS!!
I checked again the hose from pump to reservoir ,and it was split a bit so I removed the small length of hose near the tank and replaced it with a new length of heater hose and 2 new jubilee clips plus the pump end clip was not tight so a new jubilee clip was put on .
I then filled the hose up, joined it all up tightly and VOILA !!!
Slowly but surely, she started to rise and the light went out.
I did Citrobics a few times and she started to go up better.
The light still comes on while she goes up but once the back end is fully up , the light goes out and stays out!!.
So an airleak seemed to be the cause.
Still can't understand why parking it on a high kerb makes it go up and down better but at least I can drive it again.
As I am a pastor I prayed for Divine Help and It came through you guys and your suggestions, so if car needs prayer (God knows these Cits are quirky) , then I am your man [:)]
I'm going to change the acc sphere on Mon. as well as I think its shot
A BIT THANKS TO YOU ALL ESPECIALLY JEREMY MANDRAKE ETC.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL !!!!
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Post by jeremy »

I'm pleased to know that you have found the problem and that the car is working. I am however a little concerned that heater hose may prove to be soluble in LHM - and I'm sure you can imagine what could happen if it is! - bad enough on a BX - but an Activa!
I'm sure someone will know if it is safe to use but its not a general substitute and I'm sure that cost isn't the only reason that Anders suggests garden hose.
Jeremy
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Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>

I'm pleased to know that you have found the problem and that the car is working. I am however a little concerned that heater hose may prove to be soluble in LHM - and I'm sure you can imagine what could happen if it is! - bad enough on a BX - but an Activa!
I'm sure someone will know if it is safe to use but its not a general substitute and I'm sure that cost isn't the only reason that Anders suggests garden hose.
Jeremy
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I concur, although the temporary hose will probably be ok for a few days or weeks, now that the problem has been identified I would strongly suggest that a correct replacement hose be obtained and fitted, presumably GSF sell one for a reasonable price ?
If the accumulator sphere is flat you rely entirely on the pump for the front brakes, and if the hose were to suddenly spring a leak...
Regards,
Simon
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Post by citronut »

i would replace the hose with a proper peice of LHM hose as i have found in the past lhm attacks most rubber and makes it go soggy
regards malcolm
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Post by patneenan »

I will try and get some replacement L.H.M. hose.
As it is only a length of about 4 inches I will try and get some from Hutchinson the maker, I have contacts in Total Spain (Hutchinson is part of the Total group),
Luckily it has its i.d. number right there so shouldn't be hard to get.
Thanks for advice chaps
Will keep you all posted.
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Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by patneenan</i>

I will try and get some replacement L.H.M. hose.
As it is only a length of about 4 inches I will try and get some from Hutchinson the maker, I have contacts in Total Spain (Hutchinson is part of the Total group),
Luckily it has its i.d. number right there so shouldn't be hard to get.
Thanks for advice chaps
Will keep you all posted.
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I would be inclined to replace the entire length of hose, if it's cracked in one place, theres no reason why it might not be cracked elsewhere, or about to crack elsewhere due to age. There could still be a much smaller leak in another part of the hose. (Not to mention that each extra join you add in the hose is itself a potential air leak if it comes loose)
Given that the Activa uses such a large amount of pumping capacity for the active anti-roll system, and the fact that its a safety issue for brakes etc, it would be false economy to buy a 4 inch length...
Regards,
Simon
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Post by patneenan »

The other hose , the longer piece is in perfect condition, I have never taken it off hence no cracking around the end.
The other short piece was cracked as i had taken it off various times in the past i.e. when cleaning out the reservoir, priming the pump etc.
There are no cracks along it only at the end.
Another reason it was sucking in air was because at the pump end that cr-p Citroen clip was holding it tight so without removing pipe i undid the jubilee clip and put it back on nice and tight. The pump end of the hose was quite loose before , but now it's a tight fit.
Am taking car to have acc. sphere changes today.
Cheers Simon for your input.
How weired that someone halfway acroo the globe can help you!!!
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