Xantia 2.1 on Veggie oil

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 25 Aug 2005, 04:16

I think Customs and Excise are more interested in red diesel; HHO looks and smells like normal diesel so why would they go to the trouble and expense of having a sample analysed? I've heard that HHO is a more refined version of diesel, consequently it doesn't have the same lubricating properties and will do your pump in in time. Now a 50/50 mix of HHO and cooking oil??
Incidentally, it's now up to 29p a litre.

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 25 Aug 2005, 06:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FrenchLeave

I think Customs and Excise are more interested in red diesel; HHO looks and smells like normal diesel so why would they go to the trouble and expense of having a sample analysed? I've heard that HHO is a more refined version of diesel, consequently it doesn't have the same lubricating properties and will do your pump in in time. Now a 50/50 mix of HHO and cooking oil??
Incidentally, it's now up to 29p a litre.
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As an aside. where I get my biofuel from there is a vehicle recovery and repair company next door to him. Every vehicle that is brought in has it's tank dipped by the Customs people. They don't just check to see if it's red. Most of the other fuels have markers put into them so that they can be identified.
Also for people who want to run biofuel, biodiesel or cooking oil, it is worthwhile putting a clear inline filter just before the main fuel filter. Often because these fuels are heavier than diesel they can drag crap from the tank and pass it through your fuel system. I've done this on both of my cars and it stops the main filter from getting clogged.
Regards

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 25 Aug 2005, 13:55

To legally use cooking oil you have to register with HM Revenue & Customs. Phone their Newcastle office (0191-201-1812) and get a form EX103 sent out. It's a bit of a palaver and they don't make it very easy (do they actually know what they are doing or what their rules are?) Eventually (apparently) you get a visit and then an acceptance letter. The tax you pay depends upon what you are categorised as - as biodiesel producer or a fuel substitute producer. You pay tax monthly, using a form and cheque return within 15 days of the month ending. It is entirely self policing but you have to keep records and receipts for 6 years and can be inspected at any time.
I have done part one but I'm waiting for anything further to happen. It doesn't make for really cheap motoring (as you have to pay the duty on the veg oil) but it currently works out cheaper than diesel and the price is more stable.
Get caught with anything in your tank that is either illegal or doesn't have duty paid and you're in big trouble.

splat · Post by **splat** » 25 Aug 2005, 18:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FrenchLeave

I think Customs and Excise are more interested in red diesel; HHO looks and smells like normal diesel so why would they go to the trouble and expense of having a sample analysed? I've heard that HHO is a more refined version of diesel, consequently it doesn't have the same lubricating properties and will do your pump in in time. Now a 50/50 mix of HHO and cooking oil??
Incidentally, it's now up to 29p a litre.
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Unfortunately it doesn't look or smell quite like diesel. Diesel is a slightly yellow colour, heating oil looks pretty much like water. You can smell the difference even when you're following a car that's running on heating oil!
The pump and injectors will wear in time due to the lower lubricity, however there are additives such as Millers' DieselClean which, amongst other things, boost the lubricity and should at least delay the damage.
I believe heating oil does contain chemical markers so a proper test would definitely pick it up.

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 25 Aug 2005, 18:54

I know the chances of getting stopped and dipped are pretty small but if it happens don't expect HM R&C to be complete plonkers. They'll have seen it all before and have easy ways to detect what's in your tank. I've heard of vehicles being retained, high fines etc. I don't know what the penalty is, but depending on what you're using you'll be avoiding paying duty, tax (possibly) and maybe using an illegal fuel; they won't give you a fixed penalty notice and tell you not to do it again.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 25 Aug 2005, 19:35

There are basically 2 different types of home heating oil, kerosene (28 second oil / TVO / paraffin etc) and red diesel (35 second oil etc). The red diesel you buy as home heating oil is pretty much the same thing that farmers buy as red diesel, it's a high sulphur content diesel with a dye and a chemical marker in it. You can run a diesel engine on red diesel but I wouldn't recommend trying it with kerosine, kerosine will be too thin so your injection pressures and timings will be wrong and it won't lubricate as well as it should. You can probably add heavier oil to the kerosine, e.g. cheap engine oil or veg oil.

Post by **c.morewood** » 25 Aug 2005, 20:17

Great vegoil conversion site.. very helpful replies.. they've even converted an Hdi and a Volvo truck to run on vegoil! based in Didcot.
http://cgi.futuretec.plus.com/
Chris

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 25 Aug 2005, 23:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by citroencharlie

Used bio diesel 50/50 in my 2.1 TD, engine cut while driving, completly clogged the fuel filter after two weeks, feel i'm lucky it didn't do worse
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Bio-diesel has good cleaning properties. It tends to clean all the deposits from dino-diesel that have been stuck to the inside of your tank and fuel lines for years. It will be these deposits that clogged your fuel filter not the bio-diesel itself (unless you bought naff bio that is).

madmanbob · Post by **madmanbob** » 26 Aug 2005, 15:57

Heating oil, being thinner, does not have the same lubrication properties as diesel and if you want to use it ad some 2 stroke oil. Veggie oil does have the lubrication properties as diesel and if you ever drive in France you will fill up with diesel that contains about 10% veggie oil anyway.

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 26 Aug 2005, 21:21

Kowalski, if running your engine on "thin" oil upsets your injection pressures and timings, why doesn't "thick" veggie oil also upset pressures and timings?

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 26 Aug 2005, 22:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FrenchLeave

Kowalski, if running your engine on "thin" oil upsets your injection pressures and timings, why doesn't "thick" veggie oil also upset pressures and timings?
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It upsets the pressures just the same but the biggest reason for not using kerosine is the lubricity, veg oil doesnt have that problem.
Some injection pumps can't cope with kerosine where as others can, I've no idea whether the Lucas and Bosch pumps can or can't cope with it but I'd suspect not.

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 27 Aug 2005, 00:34

Just as a matter of interest, I spent a large part of my working life around gas turbine aircraft so I am very familiar with AVTUR (aviation turbine fuel), AVCAT and AVTAG. All types of kerosine. I can assure you that my heating oil neither smells nor looks like kerosine. It does smell like derv and it is not red. As an XM V6 owner I have to buy gasoline so it's all academic to me.

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 12 Sep 2005, 23:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FrenchLeave

Just as a matter of interest, I spent a large part of my working life around gas turbine aircraft so I am very familiar with AVTUR (aviation turbine fuel), AVCAT and AVTAG. All types of kerosine. I can assure you that my heating oil neither smells nor looks like kerosine. It does smell like derv and it is not red. As an XM V6 owner I have to buy gasoline so it's all academic to me.
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I've never tried AVTUR but know people who do. From what I've been told it works very well (it burns hotter than diesel) and it has all the lubricating properties as they are required for the turbine fuel pumps. Oh and it does not have the markers added.
My concern would be the custards and exercise though. [:(]
Cheers