<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by G4EIY</i>
Hi Folks,
I am 98% there, but am having problems getting the adapter/s from the Citroen pipe (About 4.5mm o/d), to the gauge (1/4" BSP rear entry fitting).
I have been to one outlet and phoned others, but all have drawn blanks.
Does any one have the makers and part numbers of the adapters required, so that I can order them.
Cheers Brian
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What we did years ago when we first built a pressure tester, was to get a Citroen pipe from a wreck, and a pipe that matched the guage, and get them brazed together - the two pipe diameters were such that the smaller pipe would just comfortably slide within the larger pipe. With enough overlap brazing them is quite reliable. You couldn't braze them if it was a butt joint however.
Regards,
Simon
Sphere pressure tester
Moderator: RichardW
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
Just been testing the rear spheres for pressure.
Something happened that gives creedence to my theory that the HA valve is NOT holding open (soft mode)
With engine running, door open, lower suspension to bottom and allow engine 3 minutes to empty the HA spheres. HA sphere at this point is tight.
Turn off engine and back moves up.
Switch ignition on and off a few times and back goes down, try again and back goes down on bump stops. HA sphere at this point is loose.
Now this points to the HA valve ONLY opening to the HA sphere when first energized and then closing. Obviously it SHOULD stay open whilst in soft mode.
Got any ideas for a test on the solenoid/valve combination anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Bernie,
Thats very interesting.
According to the recently posted HA2 manual the engergizing current of the solenoids is 3 amps for half a second, then drops back to 0.5 amps for continuous operation.
It seems as though your solenoids are only activating during this initial higher current pulse, and not holding open at the lower current. Either the low current mode from the computer is faulty (not likely) or the actual solenoid unit itself is.
The first can be easily checked - if you can arrange to connect an ammeter in series with the feed to one of the solenoids and measure the current.
(You would want to check BOTH solenoids one at a time, as contrary to what we previously thought, the HA2 manual reveals that the two solenoids are connected to SEPERATE outputs on the computer)
Because the current is pulse width modulated at 1Khz many digital meters may not be able to read it accurately, or indeed at all, (many cheap digital meters can't read much above 100Hz) I would recomend a plain analogue ammeter with a scale up to 5 amps.
If you see a pulse of current up to approx 3 amps and then it dropping back to about half an amp, then you can rule the computer out.
That really only leaves the solenoid and the two way needle valve that it moves as the culprit.
By the way I'm noticing some strange problems at the back of mine now too - quite frequently after being parked over night I'll start the engine, the car will lift first at the back, then at the front, and just as the front is reaching normal height the back will suddenly drop a few inches, then lift again.
Seems to me that this is the HA valve opening far too late, so perhaps it is sticking sometimes...[:(!]
I wonder how much the HA control block can be stripped and reconditioned...possibly stripping it right down, cleaning and checking and reassembling would help, but I'm a bit chicken to do that on my day to day driving car....
Regards,
Simon
Just been testing the rear spheres for pressure.
Something happened that gives creedence to my theory that the HA valve is NOT holding open (soft mode)
With engine running, door open, lower suspension to bottom and allow engine 3 minutes to empty the HA spheres. HA sphere at this point is tight.
Turn off engine and back moves up.
Switch ignition on and off a few times and back goes down, try again and back goes down on bump stops. HA sphere at this point is loose.
Now this points to the HA valve ONLY opening to the HA sphere when first energized and then closing. Obviously it SHOULD stay open whilst in soft mode.
Got any ideas for a test on the solenoid/valve combination anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Bernie,
Thats very interesting.
According to the recently posted HA2 manual the engergizing current of the solenoids is 3 amps for half a second, then drops back to 0.5 amps for continuous operation.
It seems as though your solenoids are only activating during this initial higher current pulse, and not holding open at the lower current. Either the low current mode from the computer is faulty (not likely) or the actual solenoid unit itself is.
The first can be easily checked - if you can arrange to connect an ammeter in series with the feed to one of the solenoids and measure the current.
(You would want to check BOTH solenoids one at a time, as contrary to what we previously thought, the HA2 manual reveals that the two solenoids are connected to SEPERATE outputs on the computer)
Because the current is pulse width modulated at 1Khz many digital meters may not be able to read it accurately, or indeed at all, (many cheap digital meters can't read much above 100Hz) I would recomend a plain analogue ammeter with a scale up to 5 amps.
If you see a pulse of current up to approx 3 amps and then it dropping back to about half an amp, then you can rule the computer out.
That really only leaves the solenoid and the two way needle valve that it moves as the culprit.
By the way I'm noticing some strange problems at the back of mine now too - quite frequently after being parked over night I'll start the engine, the car will lift first at the back, then at the front, and just as the front is reaching normal height the back will suddenly drop a few inches, then lift again.
Seems to me that this is the HA valve opening far too late, so perhaps it is sticking sometimes...[:(!]
I wonder how much the HA control block can be stripped and reconditioned...possibly stripping it right down, cleaning and checking and reassembling would help, but I'm a bit chicken to do that on my day to day driving car....
Regards,
Simon
Hi Simon,
Yes, a good suggestion.
I will go down that route if I can't get the adapters.
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
Yes, a good suggestion.
I will go down that route if I can't get the adapters.
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by G4EIY</i>
Hi Simon,
Yes, a good suggestion.
I will go down that route if I can't get the adapters.
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Most guages will have "standard" fittings so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a pipe with the correct fitting at one end for the guage.
It's the Citroen pipe fittings that seem to be "non standard" outside Citroen, so you're likely to have to get a custom pipe made, and since you'll probably also have to convert the diameters of the pipes from large to small, the brazing option is a good one.
If the pipe diameters were the same you may be able to get a specialist hydraulic place with the right gear to take a Citroen pipe, and cut and reflare the end going to the guage with the standard fitting for the guage.
Chances of finding a ready made pipe are pretty slim. [:)]
Regards,
Simon
Hi Simon,
Yes, a good suggestion.
I will go down that route if I can't get the adapters.
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Most guages will have "standard" fittings so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a pipe with the correct fitting at one end for the guage.
It's the Citroen pipe fittings that seem to be "non standard" outside Citroen, so you're likely to have to get a custom pipe made, and since you'll probably also have to convert the diameters of the pipes from large to small, the brazing option is a good one.
If the pipe diameters were the same you may be able to get a specialist hydraulic place with the right gear to take a Citroen pipe, and cut and reflare the end going to the guage with the standard fitting for the guage.
Chances of finding a ready made pipe are pretty slim. [:)]
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by G4EIY</i>
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Brian
I suspect we got the gauges from the same source with NO fittings.
After the 1/2 inch connector, I got an 'olive' type connector to go on the pipe.
Works a treat.
The top brass nut cost £5 at one shop????????????
And the rest down to the Cit. pipe cost £2.70 at another
Unfortunately the gauge did not come with any pipe conectors, and I think it's one that requires a small "o" ring.
Although looking at the picture of Bernie's, it looks like a similar
gauge but bottom entry.
Cheers
Brian
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Brian
I suspect we got the gauges from the same source with NO fittings.
After the 1/2 inch connector, I got an 'olive' type connector to go on the pipe.
Works a treat.
The top brass nut cost £5 at one shop????????????
And the rest down to the Cit. pipe cost £2.70 at another
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mandrake</i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
Just been testing the rear spheres for pressure.
Something happened that gives creedence to my theory that the HA valve is NOT holding open (soft mode)
With engine running, door open, lower suspension to bottom and allow engine 3 minutes to empty the HA spheres. HA sphere at this point is tight.
Turn off engine and back moves up.
Switch ignition on and off a few times and back goes down, try again and back goes down on bump stops. HA sphere at this point is loose.
Now this points to the HA valve ONLY opening to the HA sphere when first energized and then closing. Obviously it SHOULD stay open whilst in soft mode.
Got any ideas for a test on the solenoid/valve combination anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Bernie,
Thats very interesting.
According to the recently posted HA2 manual the engergizing current of the solenoids is 3 amps for half a second, then drops back to 0.5 amps for continuous operation.
It seems as though your solenoids are only activating during this initial higher current pulse, and not holding open at the lower current. Either the low current mode from the computer is faulty (not likely) or the actual solenoid unit itself is.
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Simon
GOT IT AT LAST[:)]
CURED[:)]
IT WORKS[:)]
HA2 WORKING[:)]
Go on have a guess[^]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
Just been testing the rear spheres for pressure.
Something happened that gives creedence to my theory that the HA valve is NOT holding open (soft mode)
With engine running, door open, lower suspension to bottom and allow engine 3 minutes to empty the HA spheres. HA sphere at this point is tight.
Turn off engine and back moves up.
Switch ignition on and off a few times and back goes down, try again and back goes down on bump stops. HA sphere at this point is loose.
Now this points to the HA valve ONLY opening to the HA sphere when first energized and then closing. Obviously it SHOULD stay open whilst in soft mode.
Got any ideas for a test on the solenoid/valve combination anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Bernie,
Thats very interesting.
According to the recently posted HA2 manual the engergizing current of the solenoids is 3 amps for half a second, then drops back to 0.5 amps for continuous operation.
It seems as though your solenoids are only activating during this initial higher current pulse, and not holding open at the lower current. Either the low current mode from the computer is faulty (not likely) or the actual solenoid unit itself is.
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Simon
GOT IT AT LAST[:)]
CURED[:)]
IT WORKS[:)]
HA2 WORKING[:)]
Go on have a guess[^]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I wonder how much the HA control block can be stripped and reconditioned...possibly stripping it right down, cleaning and checking and reassembling would help, but I'm a bit chicken to do that on my day to day driving car....
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
I wonder how much the HA control block can be stripped and reconditioned...possibly stripping it right down, cleaning and checking and reassembling would help, but I'm a bit chicken to do that on my day to day driving car....
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
Simon
GOT IT AT LAST[:)]
CURED[:)]
IT WORKS[:)]
HA2 WORKING[:)]
Go on have a guess[^]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I can't even begin to guess what it might be... I can think of so many potential problems that it could be any one of them.
C'mon, just spill the beans will ya... [:D]
Regards,
Simon
Simon
GOT IT AT LAST[:)]
CURED[:)]
IT WORKS[:)]
HA2 WORKING[:)]
Go on have a guess[^]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I can't even begin to guess what it might be... I can think of so many potential problems that it could be any one of them.
C'mon, just spill the beans will ya... [:D]
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Crikey that thing is rusty and corroded. The one on the back of my car looks nearly spotless and new.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, trying to get my orientation here, since two of the side look similar - so this is the side the sphere screws onto ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And this is one of the side ports with the damper valve removed ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
From what I remember of the HA2 manual, this large bolt is what holds the main control shaft/plunger in place, and is on the same axis with said plunger, although it looks like the head on your bolt is a bit mashed, and possibly the bolt is rusted in place.
I was thinking if I could unscrew the one on mine it might be possible to slide the shaft out, and clean the shaft and innards, as they no doubt have a buildup of hydraulic oil sludge in them that may be making them sticky. Hopefully there are no springs that will jump out never to be seen again...[:0]
Regards,
Simon
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Crikey that thing is rusty and corroded. The one on the back of my car looks nearly spotless and new.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, trying to get my orientation here, since two of the side look similar - so this is the side the sphere screws onto ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And this is one of the side ports with the damper valve removed ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
From what I remember of the HA2 manual, this large bolt is what holds the main control shaft/plunger in place, and is on the same axis with said plunger, although it looks like the head on your bolt is a bit mashed, and possibly the bolt is rusted in place.
I was thinking if I could unscrew the one on mine it might be possible to slide the shaft out, and clean the shaft and innards, as they no doubt have a buildup of hydraulic oil sludge in them that may be making them sticky. Hopefully there are no springs that will jump out never to be seen again...[:0]
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mandrake</i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Crikey that thing is rusty and corroded. The one on the back of my car looks nearly spotless and new.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, trying to get my orientation here, since two of the side look similar - so this is the side the sphere screws onto ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And this is one of the side ports with the damper valve removed ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
From what I remember of the HA2 manual, this large bolt is what holds the main control shaft/plunger in place, and is on the same axis with said plunger, although it looks like the head on your bolt is a bit mashed, and possibly the bolt is rusted in place.
I was thinking if I could unscrew the one on mine it might be possible to slide the shaft out, and clean the shaft and innards, as they no doubt have a buildup of hydraulic oil sludge in them that may be making them sticky. Hopefully there are no springs that will jump out never to be seen again...[:0]
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes Simon you are correct with your orientation.
It's rusty and old.
It's the spare one off a 96/67 VSX and not off my HDI.
The top fitting looks mangled because I tried to remove it, I then tried holding it in the vice but it would not turn.
Incidently the HA valve on my HDI does not have the TORX hole indicating perhaps that the cap may be pressed in.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bernie</i>
I've stripped the spare HA block and this is as far as I can get
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Crikey that thing is rusty and corroded. The one on the back of my car looks nearly spotless and new.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, trying to get my orientation here, since two of the side look similar - so this is the side the sphere screws onto ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And this is one of the side ports with the damper valve removed ?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
From what I remember of the HA2 manual, this large bolt is what holds the main control shaft/plunger in place, and is on the same axis with said plunger, although it looks like the head on your bolt is a bit mashed, and possibly the bolt is rusted in place.
I was thinking if I could unscrew the one on mine it might be possible to slide the shaft out, and clean the shaft and innards, as they no doubt have a buildup of hydraulic oil sludge in them that may be making them sticky. Hopefully there are no springs that will jump out never to be seen again...[:0]
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes Simon you are correct with your orientation.
It's rusty and old.
It's the spare one off a 96/67 VSX and not off my HDI.
The top fitting looks mangled because I tried to remove it, I then tried holding it in the vice but it would not turn.
Incidently the HA valve on my HDI does not have the TORX hole indicating perhaps that the cap may be pressed in.
Hi Folks,
Well completed at last, and works a dream...
Used a BX pump, so had to weld a nut on the shaft, used an old wheel bolt.
When all the air has been bled out, you can just use a ring spanner to bring up the initial pressure. just a simple back and forth action on one pump cylinder is all that is required.
So it will be sphere testing time in the next week or so.
Thanks to all for the info - Brilliant.
Well completed at last, and works a dream...
Used a BX pump, so had to weld a nut on the shaft, used an old wheel bolt.
When all the air has been bled out, you can just use a ring spanner to bring up the initial pressure. just a simple back and forth action on one pump cylinder is all that is required.
So it will be sphere testing time in the next week or so.
Thanks to all for the info - Brilliant.
Last edited by G4EIY on 08 Oct 2005, 19:26, edited 1 time in total.
Brian - 86 Visa 17D Sorn(192K)/ 86 BX 17RD (220K) Scrapped/ 92 BX 17TZD Turbo Diesel (191K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
96 306 XRDT (174K)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by G4EIY</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thats a nice shiny sphere you have there, did you polish it especially for the photo ? [:D]
Seriously though, nice job... very tidy and compact looking.
I havn't seen spheres with white marks around the top before, does that have some significance ?
By the way, mighty dark coloured oil you're using there... [:D]
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thats a nice shiny sphere you have there, did you polish it especially for the photo ? [:D]
Seriously though, nice job... very tidy and compact looking.
I havn't seen spheres with white marks around the top before, does that have some significance ?
By the way, mighty dark coloured oil you're using there... [:D]
Regards,
Simon
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DoubleChevron
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Hi All,
The sphere is an accumulator one, that I replaced, and when tested is still holding about 48bar, it's stamped 62Bar, so is still usable, and it has the Pleiades sticker on it, that may be their mark.
The oil was nice and green, but I have been testing all the off the car spheres that I have, and the colour now has a brown tinge !!!.
The connection to the gauge I had to get made up at a hydraulic company, cost £5, but required the pipe brazing to it, which my son did for me.
Cheers
The sphere is an accumulator one, that I replaced, and when tested is still holding about 48bar, it's stamped 62Bar, so is still usable, and it has the Pleiades sticker on it, that may be their mark.
The oil was nice and green, but I have been testing all the off the car spheres that I have, and the colour now has a brown tinge !!!.
The connection to the gauge I had to get made up at a hydraulic company, cost £5, but required the pipe brazing to it, which my son did for me.
Cheers