Xantia Hdi 90bhp or 110bhp

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 20 Jul 2005, 17:55

Even better! 130 odd bhp....nice. It's still not a PD 130 though. Those things are much better. Same amount of injections per cycle but much more pressure which means much more torque.
Even the Ford funded PSA effort is better with a 16v head on it. Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the HDi. Yeah, it's nice and quiet at idle but otherwise it's simply not a good enough replacement for the XUD which was already a very good engine. To outclass it they should've made a much greater effort. 16 valves, all intercooled, all with variable vane turbos, bonkers high injection pressure with at least 4 injections per cycle using piezo injectors, timing chain not belt and more grunt than 90/110bp. You shouldn't have to chip it to make the engine feel adequate. It's nowhere near enough. BMW are whacking out 167hp from a 2.0 diesel, whereas PSA needed a 2.2 16v just to get 130 odd. Pathetic.
PSA pride themselves on making good diesels but they're being walked all over by the Germans in my opinion.

Rostami · Post by **Rostami** » 20 Jul 2005, 21:33

Well, PSA diesel injection management is typically german...
I agree that the 8V head is a killer, but new generations of 2.0 HDi with 16v can also reach BMW power levels...

baldrick · Post by **baldrick** » 21 Jul 2005, 02:39

Thanks for the reply's, it is a 90bhp and it certainly doesnt act like a petrol engine,very slow in 1st and 2nd and seems to take forever to reach 70mph surely this is not normal.
Read about them being chipped but quit a few complain about clutch slip,what other problems can this cause.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 21 Jul 2005, 10:18

Yeah clutch slip is the main issue with the extra power, although if you're not a real nutter with the throttle and mainly use the grunt for midrange pull you should be fine. Also, without it being intercooled, you'll find that charge pressures (already being high on the HDi 90's) go through the roof as the boost is electronically controlled via the ecu. Chipping it ups the boost and will make for a hotter turbo and worse performance losses in warm weather. Make sure you let the car idle for a min or 2 before turning it off if you've just been giving it some stick to let the turbo cool down a bit.
If it's THAT slow, then it might be worth getting the error codes checked. The HDi's are renowned for having their peak torque very low in the rpm range so it should feel quicker off the mark than a TD. My g/f's 306 HDi does anyway. If there are any errors detected by the ECU then it may have put it in 'limp home' mode, cutting to power to prevent damage to the engine. To hide this the previous owner may have disconnected the warning lamp on the dash too, although on a Xantia this is not easy as it means removing the airbag, steering wheel and dash to do it.
Having said that, in limp home mode, getting to 70 will be nigh on impossible. Ever tried driving a car in this mode? There is no power at all....
I know that the HDi 90's and even the TD's, only having 90 horse and 144/150 ft/lb of torque will struggle a bit to haul the 1350kg fat arse of the Xantia around so it may be worth getting the thing chipped. Mine feels quite sluggish sometimes too. Take it to the derv doctor or someone and get it chipped if there's nothing else proven to be wrong with it. Despite the drawbacks listed above (and it making you more heavy on the noisy pedal [:)]) it'll still be £250 well spent. Avoid the powersticks as these don't work in the same way and simply up the injection pressure instead. I've driven a Xantia HDi 90 with one fitted. It ony felt slightly better, proving more revvy than anything else. A re-map would be much better.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 21 Jul 2005, 15:20

The clutch slip is caused by the mid range grunt, i.e. peak torque makes the clutch slip, not peak power.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 21 Jul 2005, 18:25

Well considering peak torque is produced at 1850rpm, how can that be mid range grunt? That's bottom end if you ask me.... Slam your foot down in 2nd at 5mph, and as soon as that turbo spools up the amount of torque going through the front wheels is immense really stressing the clutch. Tootle along at 30 in 3rd and put your foot down and the effects are a lot less.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 21 Jul 2005, 21:30

I'm calling 2000 mid range because I tend to use 1000-4500rpm and 2000 is roughly half way.
The torque from 2000-3000 is fairly constant, it does fade but the big fade doesn't start until higher in the rev range, so 2000 is the bottom end of the mid range [;)]. By the time you get to 4000rpm and peak power you're down to about two thirds of peak torque.

Post by **user_3150** » 21 Jul 2005, 23:45

Hi Everyone,
As you may know I had an ECU remap that I have found to be excellent. It runs a lot smoother and I feel safer overtaking with the extra power. It's better than a chip I would say as it re-maps everything not just fuelling or boost pressure. At £200 it was well worth it. Also I have got about 30-50 miles more out of a full tank so highly recommended on a 90 bhp HDi.

rossd · Post by **rossd** » 22 Jul 2005, 02:47

The boost pressures do not rise on the 90 HDi when its chipped/remapped/whatever, only the fuel curves are modified. The 90 still has a mechanical wastegate controlled by boost pressure, which is set to 0.95 bar. Of the two only the 110 has an ECU controlled wastegate.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 22 Jul 2005, 04:22

The mechanical wastegate only limits maximum boost, if the HDI90 is getting more fueling, it might be able to produce maximum boost in the rev range where it couldn't before. So boost is increasing at the same time that it isnt', clear as mud [:)]

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 22 Jul 2005, 12:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rossd

The boost pressures do not rise on the 90 HDi when its chipped/remapped/whatever, only the fuel curves are modified. The 90 still has a mechanical wastegate controlled by boost pressure, which is set to 0.95 bar. Of the two only the 110 has an ECU controlled wastegate.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Now I did'nt know that! Ahhh.....[8D]

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 22 Jul 2005, 12:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Alec

Hi Everyone,
As you may know I had an ECU remap that I have found to be excellent. It runs a lot smoother and I feel safer overtaking with the extra power. It's better than a chip I would say as it re-maps everything not just fuelling or boost pressure. At £200 it was well worth it. Also I have got about 30-50 miles more out of a full tank so highly recommended on a 90 bhp HDi.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
With the ECU being OBDII you can't 'chip' it as such as there's nothing physical in the ECU to replace (I chipped my BMW as with it being a pre 1995 OBDI, I had to pull the ECU apart and replace a physical chip...not easy). You have to re-program the eeprom with different (usually more agressive) fuel and timing settings with a flash, thats remapping. The only plug in 'chip' as such is the powerstick which fools the ECU into raising the fuel pressure. Not the best way of doing it. Also, on the powerstick, theres a little screw that allows you to 'wind it up' a bit more. Turned above 3/4 this causes the engine to cut out and stall at above 3000rpm. Well, it does on my mate's ex missus Xantia HDi 90. [;)]

baldrick · Post by **baldrick** » 22 Jul 2005, 23:34

It's definatly slow,just been out in it and it takes forever to get to 70mph i have to really push it through the gears to get upto a descent speed,once it reaches 70 it doesnt have any problem holding it there.
Any ideas has to why it should be this sluggish,engine seems ok no warning lights flashing.
Cant seem to find much info about these engines.

volcane305 · Post by **volcane305** » 23 Jul 2005, 13:38

you are possibly in "limp home" mode. Something has upset it. You need to get the ECU read and reset. Citroen dealer or good independant should do that. If you leave the car it sometimes can reset itself unless the fault re-occurs as soon as you start up, even if it has reset the fault code will still be recorded