bizarre twist to MG-Rover demise.

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 03:09

I blame the government for our demise because if they made the police/doctors/councils/private sector/business cars - all use "British cars" then there would be a need for them and people might just look and say "I wonder who made that" and want to buy one just a thought but I fear its too late now the government just have not done enough to help in promoting the cars mind saying that our Johny 2 jags is doing one company a favour I mean why dont the police drive them instead of flash very expensive BMWs/Volvo/merc the Germans must be laughing there proverbial t-ts of at us.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 26 Jun 2005, 03:36

If we had no choice in our cars, nothing would have improved. We'd still have dizzy caps that got full of wet, rusty patches and chokes that flooded our engines.
We don't have choice over healthcare and the NHS isn't as good as other european countries have for their healthcare, parts are good but we still have waiting lists. We don't spend as much on health in the UK as they do in Germany or France but our healthcare system is very poor in comparison, it compares badly with countries that spend less a lot less.
If the cars made in the UK were good enough for the emergency services to buy them they probably would have done. Since they weren't its kind of academic.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 26 Jun 2005, 03:59

I'm with Kowalski on this one,If you have a protectionist industry then you end up like Russia- the Lada! Competition weeds out the weak, no competition then thats what you end up with. You can, however, still buy a British built mass produced motorcar- a Nissan: made in Sunderland by British workers. Just think, if we had a protectionist economy, we would be driving City Rovers!!!!(and even they were built in India........)
Its true that government departments don't always use "British" cars- I work for just such a department and my units official car is a Nissan Micra!!! Not British badged but maybe assembled here. Prior to this we had a Laguna, and before that one of those Saab/Fiats that I can't recall the name of-it was Fiat badged as it was cheaper, and a long line of other dodgy cheapo foreign cars. The last British car we had was a mini-a real one, not the BMW version, and that was in about 1988.
I prefer to use the BX at 40p a mile, its a lot less hassle than signing the Micra in and out every day and it pays for the BX- its a bit like having a free car.......[:)]

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 26 Jun 2005, 04:59

I believe it was Napoleon Boneparte who called us a nation of shopkeepers, not Thatcher.

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:05

I do feel a little guilty having the BMW but its an old girl and a nice motor all I can afford right now, I wish I could afford the new MG I would love it but since I mostly drive the company transit and not much in the BMW so its like a second car also lives most of its life in the garage, good point is the transit is free so is the fuel and the company pick up the bill, I also agree with Kowalski the country is going to the dogs, the rich get fatter and richer without a care for the country and the poor are kept firmly down so have no choices.

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:25

I, too, agree with Kowalski and bxbodger. It's time some of you removed your rose tinted spectacles. British mass car manufacturers have produced a series of badly designed, poorly built rust buckets ever since the end of the second world war when their monopoly was guaranteed. I neither know nor care who was ultimately responsible - the designers, bosses, production line workers, the unions, the British steel makers - probably the lot. There were exceptions I suppose, although off hand I can't think of one (OK, the early Jaguars if you regard them as mass manufactured). When the rest of the world was fitting IRS, we carried on with cart springs; OHV engines? no, side valves are good enough; and please don't bring up the Mini. Design OK, execution appalling. I am shocked that RichardGreen wants "The Government" to compulsorily restore the monopoly. Is there any aspect of life that he doesn't want them to control?

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:40

I was not thinking of restoring a monopoly as such I just think as long as the tax payer gets the bill for these expensive company free cars it might as well be British and keep jobs here.

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 05:53

just one more point there frenchleave we have moved on from ohv/cart springs and the like, we dont live in the dark ages any more technology has taken pace and we have that ability.

Forth · Post by **Forth** » 26 Jun 2005, 08:15

But.... even if there was a really, really good British car on offer, it is quite likely that the compulsively-interfering brigade of political correcters would not allow it to be bought by UK public bodies anyway.

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:26

I cant argue with that you have a very good point there, but we do have the highly skilled people to make a really god British car but only if the greedy money spiders and of course those others you mention kept their mitts out of the pot.

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 26 Jun 2005, 13:27

That depends on what you cal a really good car. The market currently drools over the Range Rover Sport. Everybody I meet wants an opinion on it.
400BHP 4WD with 21/2 tons to shove around at 6-8MPG. Opinions are superfluous. Get hold of the waiting list and shoot the bloody lot of them.

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 26 Jun 2005, 14:35

May I be publicly painted pink and called Frank, But the last truly excellent British family car was the Maxi (1750 - engine size, not year of manufacture).
The Maestro was close, but lacked the Hydrolastic suspension. Only the duff workmanship and poor quality tin spoiled what was otherwise a good family motor.

Post by **Richard Green** » 26 Jun 2005, 14:59

cars had style back then and I also had both the maxi and maastro as many other probably did and loved them "pity the rust was faster than the car" but it was a learning curve for the manufactures I suppose, and dare I say it "BMW series 3 newer 5 series and the Mercedes" have a rust problem so it could back fire on them if they dont get their act together.

drpau · Post by **drpau** » 26 Jun 2005, 21:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Richard Green

I blame the government for our demise because if they made the police/doctors/councils/private sector/business cars - all use "British cars" then there would be a need for them and people might just look and say "I wonder who made that" and want to buy one just a thought but I fear its too late now the government just have not done enough to help in promoting the cars mind saying that our Johny 2 jags is doing one company a favour I mean why dont the police drive them instead of flash very expensive BMWs/Volvo/merc the Germans must be laughing there proverbial t-ts of at us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Im with you on this Richard. if you go to France, you see the Police driving Peugeots Citroens, Renaults- never anything else. Same goes for Spain and Seats and Fiats in Italy- they are the majority. I cant see German Police, for example, driving round in a Ford/Citroen or something.. The only Police Rovers I see over here are on Emmerdale on ITV and thats not quite the same.
They dont have to buy ALL British cars but surely we should take a leaf out of other Europeans books on this one- I'd rather have the Goverment buying some british cars and keeping people in work than them all on the 'dole'- taxpayers would pay in the end anyway. At the moment weve got close to 25000 people looking at the dole from the recent demise. Thats a lot of dole dosh!
I believe the Government did order 4 75s just as they were going under- too little too late and government officials turning up in BMWs (I believe it was Gordon Brown) when the collapse was being announced just adds insult to injury. I believe Tony B did have access to a stretched 75 - I never saw him use it though..

Also, please dont say that BMW didnt damage Rover. Before they took over Rovers sales volume were on target to exceed BMWs in europe! Rover had at the time, the newly launched 200, 400 and MGF. the 600, 800, mini, Landrover and Rangerover (OK some ageing models) By the time they had finished Rover was left with just 4 models and BMW took with them the R30 (replacement for 200)- hints of which are seen in the 1 series...
?Frenchleave? Have you taken leave? Of your senses that is!Speaking of us being behind the times; Dolomite Sprint- first EVER mass produced 16 valve engine- not exactly behind the times was it and the Rover K series- race style engine design - cant be that bad if its the most used engine in motorsport....
"poorly built rustbuckets" etc...When did you last drive a Rover? Clearly none this side of 1990.
Ahh, sunday lunch time...
[:D]

Post by **CitroJim** » 26 Jun 2005, 23:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by martyhopkirk

The Maestro was close, but lacked the Hydrolastic suspension. Only the duff workmanship and poor quality tin spoiled what was otherwise a good family motor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, Basically BMC/BL/AR etc produced fundamentally sound cars. I know, I've had enough! But yes, let down by poor execution most of the time. My last one, a '93 Metro, was a great little motor but the build quality and the materials used were abysmal - on a par with a Moskvitch...
What a shame BMC/BL/AR etc did not develop Hydrolastic and Hydragas further, which I thought was really good on the late Metros into a full Citroen style Hydropneumatic system. The basic Hydragas would have lent itself well and we then may well have had a Brit with a bit of promise. A Rover 75 with Hydropneumatic and good build quality - now theres a thought. Would have been a world beater.