Alternatives to LHM?

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 18 Apr 2005, 16:02

Even the wrong sort of mineral oil can cause problems. Additives have different effects on different seals and oils invariable contain all sorts of additives and friction modifiers.
Oils also contain seal conditioners, the wrong seal conditioner can make a seal swell or shrink, usually the conditioner is matched to the seal material to overcome whatever shrinkage / swelling that material has when exposed to the particular oil etc.
There is a reason that CAV injection pumps can't be run on vegetable oil instead of mineral diesel and it is not unlrelated to the reason why brake fluid can't be used to replace LHM.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 18 Apr 2005, 17:02

I was talking to a guy the other day and mention was made of ATF. He calmly says "Oh yes, that was possibly the old ethylene glycol based stuff you mean?"
The only time I've heard ethylene glycol used has been in the context of coolant, yet apparently it was also the base for some kind of Auto transmission fluid??
My head hurts!!
Alan S[;)]

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 18 Apr 2005, 17:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oilyspanner

In an emergency I have seen cooking oil used as a get you home substitute, in fact a friend who was running an old BX as work transport/toolbox ran the hydraulics on veg oil for over a year with no apparent ill effects.[8D]
Stewart
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This car will be toast, it's hydraulics will be totally rooted. Every seal on the car will be swollen and disintigrated. I'm stunned it lasted a year. You see he put a vegetable in into a system that only tolerates mineral oil. He'd have been better off putting **any** mineral oil, at least it wouldn't have caused any damgage.
seeya,
Shane L.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 18 Apr 2005, 17:51

Well it was toast anyway, it was a builders toolbox, there was so much cement dust in it had the interior got wet the thing would have set solid! nonetheless it ran without any apparent problems for over a year, I prefer to put veg oil into the fuel system myself[:D]
Stewart

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 18 Apr 2005, 18:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">? Why would you want to save a few pounds to save on the recommended oils from Citroen <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because when Halfords want 7 quid a litre for Castrol LHM, as in my local one,it does become a relevant question!
I go elsewhere, obviously, but to someone not particularly interested in how their car works, running an old and leaky BX or Xantia on a budget, this could be the difference between survival and the scrapper.

Rostami · Post by **Rostami** » 18 Apr 2005, 21:57

This is a long discussed topic indeed.
On my Xantia Manual, it is stated that MINERAL motor oil (5w40?) can be used in case f emergency but that this would require a complete clean-up ot the system as soon as possible.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 18 Apr 2005, 22:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rostami

This is a long discussed topic indeed.
On my Xantia Manual, it is stated that MINERAL motor oil (5w40?) can be used in case f emergency but that this would require a complete clean-up ot the system as soon as possible.
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5w40 would be a synthetic oil.
You must find a 10w40 mineral oil.
It will be declared on the bottle anyway.
The BX & CX booklets also states you can get home using mineral oil as an emergency.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 19 Apr 2005, 02:55

Here's something that nobody has mentioned.
Why use a multi grade oil? Wouldn't varying ratings cause a problem with the operation of the system as regards its ability to pass through different valves & orifaces within the system, say the sphere dampers for an example, in which case wouldn't it be more prudent to use a mono grade oil or the ATF which to my knowledge isn't multi grade and would the oil used be preferrable in a high detergent oil or not?
Alan S[}:)][}:)]

madmanbob · Post by **madmanbob** » 19 Apr 2005, 03:30

AndersDK, The viscosity of the oil is nothing to do with whether the oil is synthetic or mineral. When a mineral is called for as a substitude for LHM, what is meant is not synthetic brake fluid.

madmanbob · Post by **madmanbob** » 19 Apr 2005, 03:38

Another thing that I wanted to mention was that I used to run all of my Citroens hydraulics on aircraft mineral hydraulic oil. The stuff is coloured red and known as either H515 or the RAF description is OM15 (Oil Mineral 15 viscosity). The CX ran from 60000 miles to 185000 miles on it with no problems. The bonus was that I could get it for free, and on the CX when the LHM was thick in the winter the OM15 was not, this made the power steering feel normal at sub zero temperatures rather than heavy.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 19 Apr 2005, 04:09

There is some truth in what Anders says, I've yet to see a mineral 5w40 or a 10w40 synthetic for that matter but that is not to say that neither exists or is possible.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 19 Apr 2005, 05:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by madmanbob

Another thing that I wanted to mention was that I used to run all of my Citroens hydraulics on aircraft mineral hydraulic oil. The stuff is coloured red and known as either H515 or the RAF description is OM15 (Oil Mineral 15 viscosity). The CX ran from 60000 miles to 185000 miles on it with no problems. The bonus was that I could get it for free, and on the CX when the LHM was thick in the winter the OM15 was not, this made the power steering feel normal at sub zero temperatures rather than heavy.
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For years on the DS lists it's been rumoured the Milspec 5606 is an extremely close equivelant for LHM. Though is probably more expensive to purchase.
seeya,
Shane L.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 19 Apr 2005, 06:15

Shane,
Where did that Yank website get to that gave all the various specs? (The one by Bargenweiser the third or whatever his name ws.[:p][:p]
Alan S

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 19 Apr 2005, 07:42

Alan - It was the page "Revised summary of Citroen hydraulic fluids" by Mark L. Bardenwerper.
http://www.compufort.com/users/cando/to ... patibility
Unfortunately this site no longer seems to exist.
However the web archiver seems to work :
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php (paste in the website above in search window)

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 19 Apr 2005, 07:50

I googled his name and found his website. Here's the fluid info:
http://www.candokaraoke.com/tony.html
seeya,
Shane L.