R.I.P Rover?

Oscar Too · Post by **Oscar Too** » 08 Apr 2005, 21:09

There are two strands in nationalised industry. Generally speaking, British nationalised industry performs very badly, as Kowalski points out. French nationalised industry tends to do rather well as Madasafish points out- Airbus is the offspring of various highly competitive, entrepeneurial national aircraft companies. The difference is not the nationalised/privatised alternative, but a more subtle one. There may be differences of industrial policy, of perceived political benefit, of (dare I say it?) national character. I don't have the answers, I'm just sorry that so many people will now be facing very uncertain futures.

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 08 Apr 2005, 22:52

The damage was done when almost all the british manufactuers merged into BL. Infighting sprung up. The fabulous P6BS sports car was killed as it clashed with the Stag and Etype. Other "could haves" went the same way.
I have a P6 and I think it is incredible for a 34 year old car. It has an amazing level of refinement and is full of clever engineering - most of which was dropped for the SD1.
I hope the Directors get lynched though. They have looked after themselves very well. I don't deny they should get some reward for having the bravery to take over in the first place but they've made some howlers (CityRover) and stuffed plenty of cash into their own pension fund while the poor workers are now faced with a penniless future. Shame.

dillosk8ter · Post by **dillosk8ter** » 08 Apr 2005, 23:35

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Renault did it: got so good they took over Nissan and sorted them out. Renault were a nationalised industry.
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Renault were nationalised after WW2 for colabaration with the Nazi's.

Forth · Post by **Forth** » 08 Apr 2005, 23:44

"Looking on the bright side, however, we have in this country an endless list of small niche manufacturers"
Good though they doubtless are, hardly enough to keep a country with around 60million population going.
"( TVR being the best known ),"
But isn't even that now owned by some Russian fatcat?
"and apart from Ferrari almost all of F1 is done from the UK, along with most WRC teams."
Have been reading that for years, but what good is it? So a few good engineers and mechanics are freelancing for foreigners... but in terms of practical transport there's sod-all ability any more for the country to be anywhere remotely like self sufficient; just as in "defence" where outsiders with their own agenda could pull the plug on it any time. In real terms it's about as much use as being able to make a wing or whatever for the so-called Eurofighter. What about the rest, without which these bits are useless?
Personally, I do wonder if due recognition should go to such worthy and allegedly "world-class" (isn't that what they and their politician cronies term themselves each payrise?) "captains of industry" (aye, and union fatcats too!) who brought this country to its present state, a reward commensurate with their ability -- perhaps a firing squad might be appropriate.

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 08 Apr 2005, 23:58

Yes, TVR is now Russian. Reliant only imports cars now which leaves Morgan and Noble. Not a bad pairing to be left with but hardly volume manufacturers!
But there are big producers in Britain still. Witness Peugeot in Coventry (who unfortunately are also laying of staff although I think the unions may have made them thing twice), Nissan in Sunderland - an award winning factory for efficiency, Toyota in Derby and Honda in Swindon. Proof that we do still know how to screw a car together.
By most accounts (ie people who have driven them rather than those who are purely fashion concious) the Rover range is still pretty good, the 75 especially. I guess there will be plenty of cheap ones around now. Competition for the old BXs?
Shouldn't joke. There's little to laugh about.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 09 Apr 2005, 00:17

Sad to see the job losses and the knock on effects, the loss of a once famous marque is also sad, In an age of commercial globalism where Ford or Volvo seem to own most things automotive, I can buy a Chevy in Halfrauds ,I can get my phone from the gas people, electricity from the water board and bank at Tesco I must admit their (Rover) recent products do very little for me, Kid brother had a couple of them as company motors a few years ago. I drove both of them briefly, eminently forgettable products, nowhere near as good as the old V8s and 2000s,and a lot less style, I had the misfortune to do some work on one of the 600s once not nice, I think the designer was influenced by the citroen heater bloke. In a world where theres an overcapacity in motor manufacture its the weakest to the wall. Just hate to see the fat cats once more filling their boots again.
Stewart[:(]

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:11

I feel sorry for the workers and contractors that will loose out but to be honest Rover have been awful for years. I know of over a dozen rovers less than 3 years old that have eaten their own engine for no apparant reason and owners have had to threated legal action to get any warranty help. Not the way to run a company if you want it to have a future.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:24

While there isn't a UK volume car manufacturer aside from Rover there are a lot of small companies that make bits for the foreign manufacturers and engineer stuff for them.
E.g. Quaife, Ricardo etc etc.
I drive past Nissan's plant at Sunderland on my way into work, the Car plant is only a small part of the site. There are lots of companies making parts for Nissan "just in time". Seats, dashboards, pressings castings etc.
Sadly, there are also loads of trucks bringing in goods from eastern europe, and when I say loads I mean loads, they make up a large proportion of the trucks on the roads in the surrounding area, no doubt transporting goods using low duty diesel from europe. Its the way of the world, if you're slow, low quality or expensive the competition eats you pretty quickly.

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:25

Its tragic that MGRover have gone into recievership. Not least the jobs that will be lost and the knock on effect to the local economy.
In some respects though the company have sown their own seeds of doom - the poor build quality which dogged the Austin Rover brand through the 70's and 80's carried on into present day. I have seen P & R plate Metro's / 100's with terminal rust. My fathers own 100 (1996) is beginning to rust badly despite being meticulaously (sic) looked after.
Asset / Name stripping and lack of R & D investment seems to have caused the company to colapse. Who though, is responsible? Seems like poor management to me.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:40

My friend has a 95 Rover 100 with an auto, not a bad little car apart from the rust. My neighbours had a builder in, he drove a pristin 1985 Metro, it looked like showroom condition. They don't all rust, but once they start the end comes quickly.
You have to remember that the current management brought along the current MG lineup and the V8 engined models so they have managed some good. There was talk of them shipping a car plant from a failed Daewoo joint venture over to the UK to replace the Rover 25/45 with but nothing has come of it yet.

dillosk8ter · Post by **dillosk8ter** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:41

Rust problem definatly true, killing off 800's (even very late models), 100's, 600's and pretty bad on '89 on 200/400's also seen rusty newer shape 400's, terminal rust is pretty unacceptable these days, in my opinion anyway. Couple this with generally low standards of quality, design flaws (k series and head gaskets?) and undedesirable dated range (for the most part) and finish off with 'old fart' image its no great suprise they've gone to the wall.

Paulmi16 · Post by **Paulmi16** » 09 Apr 2005, 01:50

It is a shame what is happening to Rover, not just the people who work for them who lose their employment, but the people who make parts for them, and the industries that support them before and after the cars are made.
However in 1991 it was decided by my company fleet manager that we would support Rover and all the company cars were replaced by Rover's I was given the Honda engined 216 Hatchback, the list of thongs that went wrong with it would bore you to death, coupled to a dealer network that either could'nt or would'nt fix the properly. The amount of time and money it cost our company due to the unreliabilty and down time of the cars was colossal, so we went back to Vauxhall, Ford, Peugeot etc. What a shame.
Paul.

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 09 Apr 2005, 03:09

I know someone who has a TF and she's had tons of problems with it. Her friend has had no trouble at all with a very similar car. Look at the JD power surveys thought and it's Volkswagen and Mercedes Benz that do badly!
Whether it is both playing on the reliability reputation without actually bothering anymore I don't know. Maybe it isn't just car companies in this country that are badly run.
The K series is a cracking engine. Don't forget you'll find it in Caterham's, Morgans, Lotus', and many more. I think they've licked the head problems now although what made it worse was that you the head bolts ran the length of the engine I think. Fun!

dillosk8ter · Post by **dillosk8ter** » 09 Apr 2005, 05:20

One of my mums friends bought a Rover 25 about a year ago, head gasket went plus other problems. She had to kick up a stink to get any help from Rover whatsoever, they eventually relented but it still doesn't run right, in fact she gave up and sold it on. Its a real shame as it was the first 'decent' car she could afford ever, replacing a long line of bangers.

TomH · Post by **TomH** » 09 Apr 2005, 15:01

As far as I know the head gasket problems were due to the low coolant capacity of the engine by design, so any loss or leak and POP!!
But then I also recall someone last year in this forum trying to kill a Rover 214 and it wasn't happening!