Citroen car Club.
Moderator: RichardW
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dillosk8ter
- Posts: 217
- Joined: 28 Nov 2004, 23:17
- Location: United Kingdom
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I joined the Citroen Car Club earlier this year. Not sure if I'll renew my membership. Citroenian magazine is ok but little dull, they hardly use their forums online....just seems a bit like an old farts club..then Im only 22 (prob get thrown out too!!). Most of the events don't appeal, country drives with pub lunch, visits to railway museums and car boot sales. The way they've treated Tom is pretty poor, same goes for VisaGTI16v mate!!
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
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dillosk8ter
- Posts: 217
- Joined: 28 Nov 2004, 23:17
- Location: United Kingdom
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Does sometimes seem that to them anything newer than CX is not a proper Citroen, that attitude has always annoyed me.
Also, when I mentioned that I used to own Pug 309 and said that it was French I was quoted below with 'did anyone say made in uk, I hope not'- which kinda p*ssed me off, Peugeot is French and my 309 was a French built model.
Also, when I mentioned that I used to own Pug 309 and said that it was French I was quoted below with 'did anyone say made in uk, I hope not'- which kinda p*ssed me off, Peugeot is French and my 309 was a French built model.
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
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dillosk8ter
- Posts: 217
- Joined: 28 Nov 2004, 23:17
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
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ActivaV6uk
- Posts: 650
- Joined: 20 Nov 2003, 16:51
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: C5 X7 2.7 hdi
Past cars
Activa, silver MK1 (221bhp stock) stripped out with twin sparcos Evo seats. 95
Activa, light met red MK1 98
Activa, dark met red MK1 98
Activa, dark met blue MK1 (202bhp stock) 96
Xantia exclusive V6 auto 3l 98
Xantia 2l 8v auto
BX 4x4 GTi dark met silver
BX 4x4 GTi white
BX GTi 16v white fibre bumpers
BX GTi 16v black fibre bumpers
BX GTi 16v hurricane (doa)
BX DTR estate
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dillosk8ter
- Posts: 217
- Joined: 28 Nov 2004, 23:17
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
I haven't attended any meetings/rallies yet either.....none even remotely near me. Nearest will be Midlands rally in August, Stratford which is still a reasonable journey...although do'able. Also got no regional section for my area (only Welsh one covers North). Jesus vangreen lookin at your signature your going to have very little left to drive!! I've got to decide which one of mine to 'let go' cause having two is too expensive!! Just can't decide which?
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Jon
OK everyone, whether you are CCC members or not. I have to make some comment about this thread this evening.
As someone who has been involved with the Citroen scene for over 20 years (yes, I am quite old now!) I have seen some comings and goings with regards to Car Clubs, "breakaway clubs" and all sorts of grumbling about various Citroen clubs during that time. One car club cannot be all things to all men, and much as some people may be enthusiastic members of a club, submit content to the mag, attend meetings etc; others will get nothing out of membership and believe that it is simply not for them. That is the way of life, it is also why quite often there are several clubs that all cater for the same model or marque, often due to factions starting their own club as they were dissatisfied with what they found with the original club.
Official car clubs generally provide a monthly magazine with varied content, meetings or rallies, a Club Insurance scheme and a small ads section to buy and sell cars or parts. Generally, there is also a discount scheme offered by the Club with a parts supplier. There is also some form of Insurance for meetings (a Waiver permit, plus public liability insurance). On the other hand we have the more recent trend of Internet only Forums and clubs, whereby advice is usually prompt, meetings are unofficial and there are no officials, membership fees or structure. There are many benefits from this more casual arrangement, however, many people would still prefer to join the "traditional" club to receive the monthly newsletter, and take advantage of what else that there is on offer.
I've always found the Citroen fraternity to be one of the friendliest amongst any of the car makes. When I created the "bxclub" I didn't do it for put anyones nose out of joint, I just thought that it was a bit of fun but with some more serious content to help people keep their cars running. Nobody really "belongs" to it, its totally unofficial, yet the spirit of self help and helping others is there, as was demonstrated at my house last weekend when people got together to help me with my 2 cars, in their own time and at their own expense. For which I am truly grateful. But I'm sure that when we were doing those engine swaps last weekend, somewhere in the Uk there were other Citroen enthusiasts, CCC or 2cvGB members doing the same kind of stuff.
Whichever "Club" or website we may belong to, we are still united in our enthusiasm for the Citroen marque, and as we have demonstrated on this Forum over the past 5 years, there is help out there, and friends to be made. I'm sure if we got someone on here from CCC or one of the other clubs, they would agree with this statement, even if they approach it from a different angle than we do at times.
As someone who has been involved with the Citroen scene for over 20 years (yes, I am quite old now!) I have seen some comings and goings with regards to Car Clubs, "breakaway clubs" and all sorts of grumbling about various Citroen clubs during that time. One car club cannot be all things to all men, and much as some people may be enthusiastic members of a club, submit content to the mag, attend meetings etc; others will get nothing out of membership and believe that it is simply not for them. That is the way of life, it is also why quite often there are several clubs that all cater for the same model or marque, often due to factions starting their own club as they were dissatisfied with what they found with the original club.
Official car clubs generally provide a monthly magazine with varied content, meetings or rallies, a Club Insurance scheme and a small ads section to buy and sell cars or parts. Generally, there is also a discount scheme offered by the Club with a parts supplier. There is also some form of Insurance for meetings (a Waiver permit, plus public liability insurance). On the other hand we have the more recent trend of Internet only Forums and clubs, whereby advice is usually prompt, meetings are unofficial and there are no officials, membership fees or structure. There are many benefits from this more casual arrangement, however, many people would still prefer to join the "traditional" club to receive the monthly newsletter, and take advantage of what else that there is on offer.
I've always found the Citroen fraternity to be one of the friendliest amongst any of the car makes. When I created the "bxclub" I didn't do it for put anyones nose out of joint, I just thought that it was a bit of fun but with some more serious content to help people keep their cars running. Nobody really "belongs" to it, its totally unofficial, yet the spirit of self help and helping others is there, as was demonstrated at my house last weekend when people got together to help me with my 2 cars, in their own time and at their own expense. For which I am truly grateful. But I'm sure that when we were doing those engine swaps last weekend, somewhere in the Uk there were other Citroen enthusiasts, CCC or 2cvGB members doing the same kind of stuff.
Whichever "Club" or website we may belong to, we are still united in our enthusiasm for the Citroen marque, and as we have demonstrated on this Forum over the past 5 years, there is help out there, and friends to be made. I'm sure if we got someone on here from CCC or one of the other clubs, they would agree with this statement, even if they approach it from a different angle than we do at times.
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Richard Gallagher
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 02:36
- Location: South Bucks
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Whilst all this talk of Clubs and associations is all well and good, I think you're going to find out that in this day and age, setting up a Club of any description is nowhere as simple as it was when the existing clubs were formed many years ago.
Out here, this has been tried on several occasions and it always ends in tears.
These days with the "Big brother" mentality there needs to be a steering committee elected by members. This then drafts a constitution that has to be examined by some character sitting in an office trying to justify his existence somewhere in the Government building. This is usually returned several times for minor changes and even the most straightforwad of constitutions takes at least 6 to 12 months t be drafted. Upon being drafted, an application to make the group an "Incorporated entity" has to be lodged. This is done so that in the advent of bankruptcy, the personal assets of office bearers will not be confiscated to cover any shortfalls. It also means that when the annual tax returns are submitted that the rate of tax is based on the fact that it is an Incorporated body and as such comes under special regulations regarding tax rates and what is tax exempt for certain reasons which must be explained by the person submitting the return.
A legal practitioner must be appointed to oversee the operations. These are sometimes done in an honorary capacity or failing that, one will need to be engaged and paid for like anyone else will. An accountant will also be required to submit annual returns, tax returns and to lodge GST (VAT in your language) returns every month.
The legal man will need to organise public liability (the Yanks gift to the free world) insurance and in the case of drives this will be expensive due to the high risk factor of someone getting injured. Over here, one of the forums I'm involved with has had to distance itself from any association with members privately organising "runs" or "meets" following 7 cars being seriously damaged in 5 meets with 3 being write offs, so that will emphasise the extent of that risk. (One actually ended up in a tree and a set of step ladders were needed to extricate him from the wreck. It hit the tree, just behind the drivers head as it launched off over an emankment!!
It is impossible to run any club these days without a lot of costs and a lot of effort being involved so I would suggest that before you get too enthusiastic, ask yourselves who is going to finance it, do you have the time to devote to it and is it really worth the aggravation that can come with it? As I have mentioned in the past, I am not a club type of person as I find they exist for a variety of reasons and regardless of how honourable the intentions may be when they are created, it eventually ends up with the same group running the show year in, year out mainly due to lack of commitment by other members and so they finish up getting very stuck in their ways. This doesn't just apply to car clubs, this is every club I ever had anything to do with, from gardening to motor sport, in fact up until recently a nearby school had as one of its social club members a woman in her 70s. I don't have to tell you the kinds of suggestions she used to make for fund raising days at the scool, but she had a tribe of kids that went there in the 60's and of later years, grandchildren and it was her weekly outing and she got her own way more often than not, so just as the club that curently exists may have its problems as do every other club I ever saw, they also have the long term infrastructure and all bases covered as regards legal aspects based on hard won experience. They will also have a group in the committee that has been there for generations and will probably be there until the day they die and whilst changes will eventually happen, they will take time and be a gradual process as newer members begin to get involved.
Unfortunately, where they are now is where you guys will be but in a lesser sense in a few years time because you will never have 100% contentment in the membership. My suggestion would be to let sleeping dogs lie as regards the CCC of UK and let nature take its course and think long and hard about turning what is a pleasant internet meeting place and occasional social gathering into a hard core club with all the associated problems and expenses unless you're prepared to do the hard yards for a few years as regards time and money.
I know the initial response will be that I'm on the opposite side of the World so things are different over there, but I think you'll find that these days Governments work on the "Monkey see - Monkey do" principle and whilst it will have some differences, the degree of difficulties and obstacles placed in your way by officialdom will be just as massive.
Alan S
Out here, this has been tried on several occasions and it always ends in tears.
These days with the "Big brother" mentality there needs to be a steering committee elected by members. This then drafts a constitution that has to be examined by some character sitting in an office trying to justify his existence somewhere in the Government building. This is usually returned several times for minor changes and even the most straightforwad of constitutions takes at least 6 to 12 months t be drafted. Upon being drafted, an application to make the group an "Incorporated entity" has to be lodged. This is done so that in the advent of bankruptcy, the personal assets of office bearers will not be confiscated to cover any shortfalls. It also means that when the annual tax returns are submitted that the rate of tax is based on the fact that it is an Incorporated body and as such comes under special regulations regarding tax rates and what is tax exempt for certain reasons which must be explained by the person submitting the return.
A legal practitioner must be appointed to oversee the operations. These are sometimes done in an honorary capacity or failing that, one will need to be engaged and paid for like anyone else will. An accountant will also be required to submit annual returns, tax returns and to lodge GST (VAT in your language) returns every month.
The legal man will need to organise public liability (the Yanks gift to the free world) insurance and in the case of drives this will be expensive due to the high risk factor of someone getting injured. Over here, one of the forums I'm involved with has had to distance itself from any association with members privately organising "runs" or "meets" following 7 cars being seriously damaged in 5 meets with 3 being write offs, so that will emphasise the extent of that risk. (One actually ended up in a tree and a set of step ladders were needed to extricate him from the wreck. It hit the tree, just behind the drivers head as it launched off over an emankment!!
It is impossible to run any club these days without a lot of costs and a lot of effort being involved so I would suggest that before you get too enthusiastic, ask yourselves who is going to finance it, do you have the time to devote to it and is it really worth the aggravation that can come with it? As I have mentioned in the past, I am not a club type of person as I find they exist for a variety of reasons and regardless of how honourable the intentions may be when they are created, it eventually ends up with the same group running the show year in, year out mainly due to lack of commitment by other members and so they finish up getting very stuck in their ways. This doesn't just apply to car clubs, this is every club I ever had anything to do with, from gardening to motor sport, in fact up until recently a nearby school had as one of its social club members a woman in her 70s. I don't have to tell you the kinds of suggestions she used to make for fund raising days at the scool, but she had a tribe of kids that went there in the 60's and of later years, grandchildren and it was her weekly outing and she got her own way more often than not, so just as the club that curently exists may have its problems as do every other club I ever saw, they also have the long term infrastructure and all bases covered as regards legal aspects based on hard won experience. They will also have a group in the committee that has been there for generations and will probably be there until the day they die and whilst changes will eventually happen, they will take time and be a gradual process as newer members begin to get involved.
Unfortunately, where they are now is where you guys will be but in a lesser sense in a few years time because you will never have 100% contentment in the membership. My suggestion would be to let sleeping dogs lie as regards the CCC of UK and let nature take its course and think long and hard about turning what is a pleasant internet meeting place and occasional social gathering into a hard core club with all the associated problems and expenses unless you're prepared to do the hard yards for a few years as regards time and money.
I know the initial response will be that I'm on the opposite side of the World so things are different over there, but I think you'll find that these days Governments work on the "Monkey see - Monkey do" principle and whilst it will have some differences, the degree of difficulties and obstacles placed in your way by officialdom will be just as massive.
Alan S
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ghostrider
- Posts: 360
- Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 01:10
- Location: United Kingdom
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Boring old fart I maybe but Jon and Alan have some sound points there, I was in CCC for at least 10 years and in all that time I wrote a couple of letters, and one aricle on Cxs that never saw the light of day due to a massive internal upheaval on the CX register. This forum is more immediate, if I get a problem now I can get an answer within hours, normally from what are probably the most knowledgeable group of Cit owners I've come across; whereas if I did it through the CCC as it was, a couple of months could go by before you got a reply via the mag. During the time I was a member the people who were the lifeblood of the club remained relatively unchanged, mostly because people like me did not really contribute.
Why? because my passion was and to a certain extent still is Citroens, Not car clubs.
This forum very much moves with the times, when I first joined the majority of th posts, I would think, were about the BX, Xantias now account for a big share, reflecting perhaps that although we love our cits dearly, the time comes when for one reason or another we move on to a more recent model. I don't have the time to spend every spare moment working on my cars so I wind up changing them, BXs will survive only because people like Vanny etc, are sufficiently motivated to preserve the model.
The CCC does have the "if its new its not a real cit" attitude to an extent, when I first joined the CX was regarded as only a poor mans DS[:D] [:D] [:D] .
When you look at this site, there are several people who post loads, know a great deal and generally keep things going, one of the good things is that newcomers are made welcome and their point of view taken without any bias. It's harder to do that in a formal club.
There have been attempts to create tool sharing and social meets, which have had, as far as I can see limited success, but the important thing is that without a formal framework people are free to participate or not, it adds something to the forum But it is not its sole reason for existing, go more formal and the whole thing begins to lose its spontaneity. I dread to think how much time our hard pressed moderators put into this site but it runs well and I think making it a more formal club would not be a great idea.
Looking back at the CCC, loads of splinter groups started from there, one of the 2CV clubs for sure, Semantics I think also came from there, the CX register has had a chequered history, I don't know if it is still going, but the people who split off from the CCC have made that move presumably because they feel their particular model passion would be better catered for in a dedicated club. So one of the benefits of organisations like the CCC is it has acted as a catalyst to gather together people of like mind. The amount of effort it takes to support their sort of infrastructure is one of its strengths but also its weakness.
The great thing about this forum is that all Cits are represented, I don't have to go hunting for GS, CX BX Xantia experts, they are all here!
Keep it going people, I remember Jon posting about would we see 10000 posts and that was only about 18 months ago, where are we now 54K brilliant!
Pete
________
TEEN VID
Why? because my passion was and to a certain extent still is Citroens, Not car clubs.
This forum very much moves with the times, when I first joined the majority of th posts, I would think, were about the BX, Xantias now account for a big share, reflecting perhaps that although we love our cits dearly, the time comes when for one reason or another we move on to a more recent model. I don't have the time to spend every spare moment working on my cars so I wind up changing them, BXs will survive only because people like Vanny etc, are sufficiently motivated to preserve the model.
The CCC does have the "if its new its not a real cit" attitude to an extent, when I first joined the CX was regarded as only a poor mans DS[:D] [:D] [:D] .
When you look at this site, there are several people who post loads, know a great deal and generally keep things going, one of the good things is that newcomers are made welcome and their point of view taken without any bias. It's harder to do that in a formal club.
There have been attempts to create tool sharing and social meets, which have had, as far as I can see limited success, but the important thing is that without a formal framework people are free to participate or not, it adds something to the forum But it is not its sole reason for existing, go more formal and the whole thing begins to lose its spontaneity. I dread to think how much time our hard pressed moderators put into this site but it runs well and I think making it a more formal club would not be a great idea.
Looking back at the CCC, loads of splinter groups started from there, one of the 2CV clubs for sure, Semantics I think also came from there, the CX register has had a chequered history, I don't know if it is still going, but the people who split off from the CCC have made that move presumably because they feel their particular model passion would be better catered for in a dedicated club. So one of the benefits of organisations like the CCC is it has acted as a catalyst to gather together people of like mind. The amount of effort it takes to support their sort of infrastructure is one of its strengths but also its weakness.
The great thing about this forum is that all Cits are represented, I don't have to go hunting for GS, CX BX Xantia experts, they are all here!
Keep it going people, I remember Jon posting about would we see 10000 posts and that was only about 18 months ago, where are we now 54K brilliant!
Pete
________
TEEN VID
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 06:01, edited 1 time in total.
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DoubleChevron
- Posts: 622
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06
- Location: Australia
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Here in Victoria we have *two* Citroen clubs. The Citroen Car Club of Victoria, and the Citroen Classic club. Yes with a very small memembership in both clubs, there is the work of two magazines, two lots of 'elections', two lots of financial cr@p, two times the work everywhere. Both clubs are screaming for help. eg. articles to be sent in, editors for the magazines ... people that are currently doing work for the club are litterly begging for help as they have been doing it for years, and want to have a break.
Now a couple of years ago proceedings started so the clubs could merge (and exceptionally smart move). Same poeple but one club, 1 x work for everything. Eventually it all fell apart, buggered if I know why, but I feel there must be a few old members in the 'Classic Car Club' that faught the merger hand and foot screaming every inch of the way.... So we now still have 2clubs. Bloody ludicrous, I simply chucked in my membership. I'll never be a member of the Classic Owners club again as I find it totally ludicrous that there is 'two' clubs.
So whatever the reason is we have two clubs, and whoever stopped the merger can be happy in with there own club as the members slowly drift away (and die of old age with no-one to replace them).
There merger will be inevitable, all that's happened is it has no doubt just been put off for another 10years.
seeya,
Shane L.
Now a couple of years ago proceedings started so the clubs could merge (and exceptionally smart move). Same poeple but one club, 1 x work for everything. Eventually it all fell apart, buggered if I know why, but I feel there must be a few old members in the 'Classic Car Club' that faught the merger hand and foot screaming every inch of the way.... So we now still have 2clubs. Bloody ludicrous, I simply chucked in my membership. I'll never be a member of the Classic Owners club again as I find it totally ludicrous that there is 'two' clubs.
So whatever the reason is we have two clubs, and whoever stopped the merger can be happy in with there own club as the members slowly drift away (and die of old age with no-one to replace them).
There merger will be inevitable, all that's happened is it has no doubt just been put off for another 10years.
seeya,
Shane L.
I personally regard "Clubs" as being great for "Club" people; I'm not one.
I do however enjoy the company of people with common interests without beimg tied to any time schedule which is what these boards allow us all to do.
Regardless of how good anyone makes a club, it will only ever be attractive to a certain number of people and will only be as good any day as its current membership, which is why I take the "live and let live" attitude towards them.
I've met some great friends all over the World; some I have met personally some I will never meet and of those I've met, I doubt I'll ever see more than a handful in the same place at the one time.
In between times, I will attend the occasional CC Club meet and admire their cars and wonder at the commitment of some and they will courteously admire mine. I won't covet their cars because I really have no ambtion to own a DS a 2CV or an SM but I admire the cars and respect the people who spend the money and time on them. I will never convince them they should buy a BX or Xantia and on this point we all agree.
It's mutual respect with no strings attached; I liken it to grandparents; they can visit, play with the kids and at the end of the day, go home and leave the kids for the parents to worry about and personally, I've done enough parenting to last me a lifetime; grandpa time is my next step so perhaps this is just my current mindset.[:D][8D]
Alan S[}:)]
I do however enjoy the company of people with common interests without beimg tied to any time schedule which is what these boards allow us all to do.
Regardless of how good anyone makes a club, it will only ever be attractive to a certain number of people and will only be as good any day as its current membership, which is why I take the "live and let live" attitude towards them.
I've met some great friends all over the World; some I have met personally some I will never meet and of those I've met, I doubt I'll ever see more than a handful in the same place at the one time.
In between times, I will attend the occasional CC Club meet and admire their cars and wonder at the commitment of some and they will courteously admire mine. I won't covet their cars because I really have no ambtion to own a DS a 2CV or an SM but I admire the cars and respect the people who spend the money and time on them. I will never convince them they should buy a BX or Xantia and on this point we all agree.
It's mutual respect with no strings attached; I liken it to grandparents; they can visit, play with the kids and at the end of the day, go home and leave the kids for the parents to worry about and personally, I've done enough parenting to last me a lifetime; grandpa time is my next step so perhaps this is just my current mindset.[:D][8D]
Alan S[}:)]
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citroennut
- Posts: 41
- Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 01:05
- Location: United Kingdom
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tomsheppard</i>
makes you wonder what they think of Slough built Tractions, then.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
hi well i'm not in the ccc but the toc, had a slough built light 15 - in bits now gone to great breakers in sky and left with french built normale, slough built more upmarket with leather seats and wood dash. i like classic also cx, loved bx's, xantia's ok, no comment on c5's
cheers
simon
makes you wonder what they think of Slough built Tractions, then.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
hi well i'm not in the ccc but the toc, had a slough built light 15 - in bits now gone to great breakers in sky and left with french built normale, slough built more upmarket with leather seats and wood dash. i like classic also cx, loved bx's, xantia's ok, no comment on c5's
cheers
simon