Xantia water in oil?

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 11 Feb 2005, 19:11

My 152k mile old Xantia has developed white froth on the dipstick. It also has blown a bit of oil out of the dipstick hole. It also smokes from the rear of the engine compartment (occasionally) choking me when the car is stationery.
What do I check first? And will it be expensive!

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 11 Feb 2005, 20:30

How often do you change oil and filters? Does the car run at normal temperatures (80degrees) and does the car get thoroughly warm on hourneys of more than twenty miles regularly?
The smoke from behind the engine is blowing past the flexible joint on the exhaust/manifold joint, there should be an arrangement of springs and washers holding it all together, if that is incomplete or the fibre ring is worn you will get the smoke you describe, you need to ask for an exhaust front pipe fitting kit to replace the lot, not expensive.
Stewart

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 11 Feb 2005, 22:16

I change the oil and filters at 5k miles religiously. It is used 5 days a week for a 30 mile round trip to work through country lanes so no sitting in traffic.
I had the cam belt changed about 300 miles ago - could they have dislodged something then?
It was my belief that oil was burning somehwere on the hot engine as the oil level has dropped (prior to this I had not had to top up the oil from oil change to the next), however, if I start it from cold witin 5-10 mins on idle smoke appears. I have not noticed any loss in power but equally have not pushed it hard since I noticed it. Can garages do tests to find if there is a water leak in the engine and so isolate the fault or is it a question of guessing?

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 11 Feb 2005, 22:57

Rocker cover gaskets are prone to leaking, actually the bolts loosen with time, the cam belt change involves the belt end of the engine being raised a fair bit which might have disturbed the exhaust seal, garages can pressure test the cooling system for you but a search on this forum on head gaskets might be worth reading as a lot can be done without resorting to garages, when the head gaskets go on these motors you tend to get pressurisation rather than water/oil mixing, another early symptom is oil leaking down the back of the block, they can do this for years though before the gasket actually fails.
Stewart

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 13 Feb 2005, 21:21

Thanks very much for your help.
If the cylinder head gaskett failure leads to pressurisation then would this show by oil being forced up the dipstick pipe and going all over the engine compartment?
As that is what is happening - I can see some logic in this as presumably the water gets into the sump, boils, turns into steam and expands and so the only way to releive the pressure is for oil to go up the dipstick?
Is changing the gaskett a tough job, how many hours might a garage charge?

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 14 Feb 2005, 17:59

Usually its just gas getting into the cooling system, pressurising that and blowing water out of the radiator cap, water in oil etc is rarer, as for pressure up the dipstick. thats more like excess crankcase pressure, worn rings, but its worth cleaning out the breathers etc.
Stewart

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 14 Feb 2005, 18:25

The engine is a 2l petrol 8v.
No water coming out of radiator just white froth in the dipstick. Also, no overheating occurs - rarely gets to 80 degrees.
I've checked 2 pipes which are just below the oil filler cap, they are OK. Are there more breather pipes near the sump or at the back of the engine - my Haynes manual takes me only so far!

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 14 Feb 2005, 22:18

Aha, most of my recent experience is with diesels, but the low running temperature might be the cause of your problem, I would have thought that the thing should be getting hotter than 80 degrees, perhaps a thermostat replacement is in order, other owners on this forum might tell us the opening temperature of a petrol thermostat, but I am pretty sure its higher than 80, this might explain why condensate is not evaporating away fast enough.
Stewart

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 14 Feb 2005, 22:34

Bang on Stewart. The engine should be running nearer to 90 than 80. I would think that you have got "Mayonnaise" blocking the engine breathers. I'd suggest that you change the thermostat and then give the car a good brisk 50 mile run to evaporate the crud in the system before changing the oil and filter. (Water contamination in the filter is bad news!). leave off a breather pipe if you can,to assist this. you could always try masking off half of the radiator, to make the car run hotter until you change the stat. but don't let it run hotter than normal.

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 15 Feb 2005, 15:06

Thanks for this.
The temperature gauge has rarely gone above 80 degrees in all of the years I've owned the car (9 years)! I had put this down to the fact that I had used these oil additives and reduced friction so much that it didn't get hot. But the problem was just getting progressively worse?
At least there is some hope, the local citroen expert (as recommended by previous posts, thought that it is a broken cylinder head gaskett and that I was looking at a £600 bill and he would be better selling me a 73k mile Xantia for £750! Unfortunately in the past six months I've spent near £500 on new cambelt, catlaytic converter, tyres etc not to mention £125 of getting the bodywork sorted due to a hit and run!. My intention was to keeep the car for some years to come - however this has made me think again - would you sink more cash in or buy another (I do not have the skill/tools to do such a major operation so am reliant on local experts)?

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 15 Feb 2005, 17:45

Try a new thermostat before you do anything.
Stewart

Garysz · Post by **Garysz** » 22 Feb 2005, 22:46

Despite the complete lasck of help from the 3 out 4 Citroen dealers in the south east hampshire I found a third breather pipe and low and behold it was full of 'mayonaise'(they were all too busy to talk to me to descibe where the breather pipes were - I don't think they knew!
I could not shift it with pipecleaner as pipe was too bendy so filled it with degreaser and blew down the pipe. Then changed to oil once pipe seemed clear.
Thought all was OK but the smoking remained, local garage identified it as leaking rocker cover gasket. They also tested for blowing cylinder head gaskette and found it to be OK. Rocker ccover gaskett has now been changed and will see what happens.
If mayonnaise returns then will change the thermostat.
Thanks for your help.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 23 Feb 2005, 02:21

Thermostat should be 90 or more (92?). Diesel ones were the same but were dropped to 82 sometime after 1994.
Have you got a gauze filter in the filler cap? If you have make sure this is clear as its part of the circuit. If its caked hard and you can't clear it a pot scourer will fit as was pointed out by someone recently. I think he was lucky and found a stainless one but I've seen copper coloured ones with a strong resemblance to that in my 16 valve BX. To get it out you pull out a pin.
After a time the vent hoses soften and certainly on our diesels I have cured leaks just by clipping the hoses.
Jeremy

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 23 Feb 2005, 03:05

So should i be thinking of changing the thermostat in my 1998 r reg xantia 1.8i 16v ?, as it always runs at exactly 72 degrees no matter what the weather or how hard i drive it, i always thought this was normal ?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 23 Feb 2005, 03:16

yes - unless your gauge is grossly innaccurate
A test that may work is to start the engine from cold and feel the temperature in the region of the thermostat. Engine side should be warm and then hot while top hose stays noticeably cooler then warm suddenly as thermostat opens.
jeremy