<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ebod</i>
Its probably a longshot, but can anyone explain to me what these points I've marked below in <font color="red">red</font id="red"> are supposed to represent? The reason I ask is because there are several ECU earthing connections on the wiring diagram thar appear to pass through item 'EM15' but there doesn't seem to any particular place on my cars o/s inner wing other than the ECU,Bitron relay & glowplug relay.
WTF is 'EM15' ??? [:(!][:(!]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
EM15 & the rest of the bits that start with E are splices where several wires join together,its a kind of crimped connection with heatshrink/glue round it.
the wires that start with D are screened leads.
Synergie 1.9TD excess noise ..update.
Moderator: RichardW
Woooahhh !!!...are you sure thats safe ???[:0]
I thought loosening an injector pump on a running engine was a bit banzai.
Everyone seems to be suggesting I abandon trying to trace the fault and just try to bodge up a remedy. I want to sell this car privately without a guilt complex.
I suffered its pinking since December but its not as if its disabled.
If I can just independantly identify whether the lift sensor is functioning or not I'll decide the next step from there.
The most helpful guy so far has been <font color="red">Dave Burns</font id="red"> so I was hoping he'd contribute about whether the 13.5v sensor feed is correct or if this does imply the ECU is damaged.[:(]
I thought loosening an injector pump on a running engine was a bit banzai.
Everyone seems to be suggesting I abandon trying to trace the fault and just try to bodge up a remedy. I want to sell this car privately without a guilt complex.
I suffered its pinking since December but its not as if its disabled.
If I can just independantly identify whether the lift sensor is functioning or not I'll decide the next step from there.
The most helpful guy so far has been <font color="red">Dave Burns</font id="red"> so I was hoping he'd contribute about whether the 13.5v sensor feed is correct or if this does imply the ECU is damaged.[:(]
have a look at these sites
http://www.bba-reman.com/index.htm - in the faults for Peugeot there is a reference to wear in the pump - don't know if this is applicable to your engine.
these people may be able to check your ECU or repair it.
http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/
I seem to recall that the carelect people won't touch an ABS ECU if its been tampered with for obvious safety reasons but I don't think this applies to engine ECU's. You may think it worthwhile opening your own ECU and examining the circuit board very carefully with a magnifying glass looking for dry joints (often showing up as a grey ring round the wire stub.) With a small soldering iron and taking care not to overheat anything (you can use a pair of fine pliers as a heatsink) you may be able to repair it yourself. If I were doing it I'd start at the plugs and work from there.
I think what Nisk has in mind is slackening the bolts a bit so that you can rotate the pump. If necessary use a punch to move it a little at a time and see if the engine runs a bit better. You could move the pump with the engine stopped, try it and repeat the process. If the engine's noisy I'd retard it a bit first, having marked the starting position carefully.
jeremy
http://www.bba-reman.com/index.htm - in the faults for Peugeot there is a reference to wear in the pump - don't know if this is applicable to your engine.
these people may be able to check your ECU or repair it.
http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/
I seem to recall that the carelect people won't touch an ABS ECU if its been tampered with for obvious safety reasons but I don't think this applies to engine ECU's. You may think it worthwhile opening your own ECU and examining the circuit board very carefully with a magnifying glass looking for dry joints (often showing up as a grey ring round the wire stub.) With a small soldering iron and taking care not to overheat anything (you can use a pair of fine pliers as a heatsink) you may be able to repair it yourself. If I were doing it I'd start at the plugs and work from there.
I think what Nisk has in mind is slackening the bolts a bit so that you can rotate the pump. If necessary use a punch to move it a little at a time and see if the engine runs a bit better. You could move the pump with the engine stopped, try it and repeat the process. If the engine's noisy I'd retard it a bit first, having marked the starting position carefully.
jeremy
At weekend I had the ECU out of the car to take its details down.
Its an XUDBC02 Bosch no. 0 281 001 442
It had a black rubber plug on one side of the body and 4 torx screws holding it together, For fear of making things far worse I choose not to unscrew it. Besides the edge of the interface connector had a bead of clear sealant along it.
BIG QUESTION : Am I playing with fire attemping to crack open this ECU? If I can get it open without any detrimental effect, my brother happens to be an electronics design engineer so he could give the PCB a once over to see if there is anything suspect..
Has anyone opened one of these things up an their car has lived to fight another day?
Final question (for now) : Can NiSk advise which direction should retard the timing.... should I decide to play with the pump. i.e after I've marked a datum point, should I lever the pump towards or away from me ?
Its an XUDBC02 Bosch no. 0 281 001 442
It had a black rubber plug on one side of the body and 4 torx screws holding it together, For fear of making things far worse I choose not to unscrew it. Besides the edge of the interface connector had a bead of clear sealant along it.
BIG QUESTION : Am I playing with fire attemping to crack open this ECU? If I can get it open without any detrimental effect, my brother happens to be an electronics design engineer so he could give the PCB a once over to see if there is anything suspect..
Has anyone opened one of these things up an their car has lived to fight another day?
Final question (for now) : Can NiSk advise which direction should retard the timing.... should I decide to play with the pump. i.e after I've marked a datum point, should I lever the pump towards or away from me ?
Tonight I did another little test on the lift sensor.
Remember on a previous post I said the feed voltage was 13.5v to pin one...and Dave Burns thought that was odd...
Well I found some small spade terminals in my garage and frigged up some small extension wires to them. I connected the two spades to the loosened male side of the plug and bunged the corresponding wires into the correct point on the female plug.
I fired up the car and earthed my multimeter to the battery neg.
The live pin-1 was 3.1v and pin-2 was 0.3v. So I thought my original claim of 13.5v was suddenly far fetched.[:I]
However....as soon as I broke the sensor wires free and went back to check the female feed plug.... pin-1 was back up to 13.5v again.[8)]
Can anyone make sense of the above symptom and deduce a feasible outcome ?
Remember on a previous post I said the feed voltage was 13.5v to pin one...and Dave Burns thought that was odd...
Well I found some small spade terminals in my garage and frigged up some small extension wires to them. I connected the two spades to the loosened male side of the plug and bunged the corresponding wires into the correct point on the female plug.
I fired up the car and earthed my multimeter to the battery neg.
The live pin-1 was 3.1v and pin-2 was 0.3v. So I thought my original claim of 13.5v was suddenly far fetched.[:I]
However....as soon as I broke the sensor wires free and went back to check the female feed plug.... pin-1 was back up to 13.5v again.[8)]
Can anyone make sense of the above symptom and deduce a feasible outcome ?
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Wookey
- (Donor 2019)
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When the engine is running the lift sensor is presumably outputting some kind of square wave, whose frequency varies with engine speed. Exactly what 'DC voltage' this reads as on an electronic multimeter depends on the meter and how it does it's averaging. Posh ones will do 'true RMS' - cheaper ones will do whatever is expedient (I think). Does the voltage vary with engine speed?
The off-load supply voltage being simply '+Ve' but something different happening when the sensor is on-load and in circuit is not particularly untoward. I don't really know how it works but those voltages are perfectly possible so far as I can see. - I have no idea if they are 'correct'.
The off-load supply voltage being simply '+Ve' but something different happening when the sensor is on-load and in circuit is not particularly untoward. I don't really know how it works but those voltages are perfectly possible so far as I can see. - I have no idea if they are 'correct'.
Hi ebod - yes Jemery was correct in intepreting my suggestion - I did it with my '93 XM TD12 with no ill effects. To retard the timing move the top of the pump outwards away from the engine block.
If your going to check out the ECU board I'd start looking for corrosion rather than just dry joints. When I dismantled the ABS ECU from my XM, the quality of the circuit board and soldered connections was midway between a TV set and a nasty Taiwan electronic toy! Not what you would expect for a component reputedly worth an arm and a leg!
//NiSk
If your going to check out the ECU board I'd start looking for corrosion rather than just dry joints. When I dismantled the ABS ECU from my XM, the quality of the circuit board and soldered connections was midway between a TV set and a nasty Taiwan electronic toy! Not what you would expect for a component reputedly worth an arm and a leg!
//NiSk
Thanks NiSk & Jeremy,
My local dealer in Rochdale did suggest the ECU could be reset..I was a bit confused regarding why they didn't actually do a reset though.
I am trying to contact them right now to see if they will try a reset for me.
If they give me the brush-off ( which is a mandatory requirement pre-set procedure for all dealers [}:)] ) then I think I will open up the ECU.
Since it is not under the dashboard it could be feasible that its fell prey to the elements. So before I start moving the pump I will pursue the ECU.
.....if I break it I know I can source another....at £150[xx(]
My local dealer in Rochdale did suggest the ECU could be reset..I was a bit confused regarding why they didn't actually do a reset though.
I am trying to contact them right now to see if they will try a reset for me.
If they give me the brush-off ( which is a mandatory requirement pre-set procedure for all dealers [}:)] ) then I think I will open up the ECU.
Since it is not under the dashboard it could be feasible that its fell prey to the elements. So before I start moving the pump I will pursue the ECU.
.....if I break it I know I can source another....at £150[xx(]
Hi all,
...I got another chance this morning to look at my Synergie. The crap weather has put me off since I last posted.
I took off the ECU and cracked it open and these are the snaps :-
( warning to non-broadband users...this link opens 3x 800mb pics )
http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.jarvo/ecu-index.htm
There definately looks like there is a skanky soldered joint thats corroded/burnt out. Does ths look feasible a cause of the problem ?
...can it be repaired ? or is this a scrapper[xx(] ?
...I got another chance this morning to look at my Synergie. The crap weather has put me off since I last posted.
I took off the ECU and cracked it open and these are the snaps :-
( warning to non-broadband users...this link opens 3x 800mb pics )
http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.jarvo/ecu-index.htm
There definately looks like there is a skanky soldered joint thats corroded/burnt out. Does ths look feasible a cause of the problem ?
...can it be repaired ? or is this a scrapper[xx(] ?
Great - at least now you've found something wrong! The next question is what has been going on to cause this joint to burn? - ie is it internal or external. The reason is that there is no point in repairing/replacing the ECU if there is an external fault thats only going to do the same again.
I don't know how easy it is to lift the board and see what happens underneath? If it goes to the plug do you know the pin outs - in which case you can make a judgement (or measure) to see if anything has blown or coulld cause an overload. If all looks OK and on the basis you can get another (SH) ECU for £150 I would clean it very carefully (polisg the wire in the hole etc - clean the track very carefully) then solder it using a small iron and a jumper wire onto the appropriate tracks.
The better solution would beto pack it off to a repairer (I posted a couple of links) and have them do it. I'd do this in preference to getting the SH ECU as you know this one is the correct one for your vehicle.
Jeremy
I don't know how easy it is to lift the board and see what happens underneath? If it goes to the plug do you know the pin outs - in which case you can make a judgement (or measure) to see if anything has blown or coulld cause an overload. If all looks OK and on the basis you can get another (SH) ECU for £150 I would clean it very carefully (polisg the wire in the hole etc - clean the track very carefully) then solder it using a small iron and a jumper wire onto the appropriate tracks.
The better solution would beto pack it off to a repairer (I posted a couple of links) and have them do it. I'd do this in preference to getting the SH ECU as you know this one is the correct one for your vehicle.
Jeremy
If I have to pinpoint a specific event when it began constantly pinking, it was the day after the clutch was done and the earth strap wasn't bolted down tightly to the gearbox. I spent that night trying to jump start the car and it was only in daylight the following day I saw the loose strap ( remember on a Synergie its buried under the air filter/battery tray so its not easy to spot ). I figure that having a bad connection on the negative strap could have harmed the ECU. However I confess I'm not an electrician so my comment could be completely unfounded.
The ECU can't be completely fried because it has interacted with a code reader on two occasions and displayed results. But it does now seem a gamble on whether I pay to get the existing one checked/repaired or get a SH one. Given all the agro I've gone through since Decemeber, if I could get this niggle sorted with an £150 ECU, then I'm temped to go with a SH one.
I'll find those links you mentioned and see if the repair companies will entertain repairing it first though.
Cheers
The ECU can't be completely fried because it has interacted with a code reader on two occasions and displayed results. But it does now seem a gamble on whether I pay to get the existing one checked/repaired or get a SH one. Given all the agro I've gone through since Decemeber, if I could get this niggle sorted with an £150 ECU, then I'm temped to go with a SH one.
I'll find those links you mentioned and see if the repair companies will entertain repairing it first though.
Cheers