Xantia AL4 auto trans fluid

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 07 Jan 2005, 18:20

I have decided to change the oil in my 130,000 mile box to see if it cures my sluggish pull away, so, advised by Haynes to only use fluid available from Citroën, off I trundled to be told it is available in 2 litre containers at £20 a pop. I need 3 litres to do the change and will probably never need the remaining litre throughout my entire life (I have a gararge full of 'useful' bits).
So:
Do I bite the bullet and spend forty quid on something which might make no difference on a car which may well die next week anyway?
Hope three other people on this forum did the same thing and each donate a litre?
Fill the b*stard up with dextronII?
Carry on motoring as I have been (I can't)?
Cut a hole out of the footwell, Flintstones style? etc etc.
Answers on a postcard pls......

JohnM52 · Post by **JohnM52** » 08 Jan 2005, 03:18

Hi I would firstly check the price from Cit. I bought 2 cartons at a dealer I had not peviously used and they charged 12.50 per 2 litre bottle plus VAT. The following week I bought some from my local dealer - because when the drained fluid was measured it totalled 4.75 litres - in an extreme hurry. They know me there.. the price was 9.85 per 2 litre bottle plus vat. The 2 dealers are owned by the same Company and the local Parts Manager is the senior person for the group of Citroen agents.. a query to him had a refund to me verrry quickly.
So - check the price - it should not be 20 per 2 litres.
Don't presume the quantity out will only be 3 litres - measure the actual quantity so you know what you should use to refill it.
Don't use Dexron II or III - please
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dan.2cv</i>

available in 2 litre containers at £20 a pop. I need 3 litres to do the change and will probably never need the remaining litre throughout my entire life
Fill the b*stard up with dextronII?
Answers on a postcard pls......
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 08 Jan 2005, 16:39

Thanks a lot, I'll have a phone around.

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 08 Jan 2005, 21:53

Well I called my second nearest dealer who indeed confirmed the fluid is only £12 a bottle inc VAT. I called the dealer who quoted £20 a bottle who claimed he hadn't made a mistake and they were selling it for not much more than they bought it in for.
Tellingly, when I explained to the £12 dealer that my local had quoted £20, he wasn't surprised. Coupled with some previous bad experience with this dealer, I think I'll be driving a bit further to the other one, which is a much nicer showroom anyway!!
ps John: I don't think I would have had the guts to put dextron in anyway!!
Did you notice ant difference when you changed your oil? what's your mileage?

JohnM52 · Post by **JohnM52** » 08 Jan 2005, 23:32

Hi Dan
Just goes to show there are some reasonable dealers out there - it is just a pity you have to know what you are doing before you can have faith in them.
Changed the oil at 83000 miles in the R plate Xantia V6. THe old fluid was filthy. The difference was immediate - changes were much crisper, less hunting for the correct gear, overall just so much better. I didn't have the ecu reset - will just wait until the lights come on to indicate a fluid change required and will deal with it then.

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 09 Jan 2005, 06:37

I'm gonna do the change on Tuesday after I pick up the fluid. Keep your eyes on the thread and I'll let you know how it goes in a week or so. Thanks for the advice so far.

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 14 Jan 2005, 20:30

I have had to change the oil on various automatic gearboxes, including large commercial boxes made by Alison fitted to trucks, and buses.
When changing the oil in an automatic gearbox, you should also drain, and refill the torque converter. With the gearboxes I worked on, I would turn the torque convertor, around until the drain plug in it aligned with the opening in the bell housing.
I would expect that there should be a drain plug in the torque convertor that Citroen have fitted to your vehicle.

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 14 Jan 2005, 20:40

A quick look around hasn't revealed anything obvious on the bell housing. A Citroën chap I spoke to said only around 3 litres drains because the rest is left in the TC, I'm sure he would have said how to drain it if it could be done in situ, so any more advice would be great. I didn't change the oil Tuesday because of bad weather and won't now get a chance until NEXT weekend - my next days off from the wonderful NHS.

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 14 Jan 2005, 21:28

The drain point for a torque convertor on most vehicles, will normally be found on the lowest point on the bellhousing. They can could have a bung in them to keep the dirt out of the bellhousing area.
I have had to rotate the torque convertor slowly, on other makes of vehicle, through another access hole, to be able to find a drain plug on it. The drain plug even if it is on a truck or bus can be surprisingly small, and it can take a short while of hand cranking it around, using a screw driver to find it, and feeling for it with your finger. I have not had the opportunity, to change the oil on an automatic gearbox fitted to a Citroen yet.
Any automatic gearbox I have seen, has been fitted with a drain plug in the torque convertor. Citroen's gearbox should be the same.
A schematic diagram would be useful here, to look into this in greater detail.
Note, there is a connected thread here:-
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=11356
So, I hope we can find out more information from other posters, through one of them. [:)]

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 14 Jan 2005, 23:22

I have to say that I'm watching this topic with interest as I have three bottles of the Esso stuff in my garage waiting for me to get time to put it in my Xantias gbox. Mine has the 4HP20 though rather than the AL4. I think there is an exploded view of the 4HP20 in pdf format on the Yahoo Xantia-L site. It may be similar to the AL4.

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 15 Jan 2005, 02:51

My trusty mate Mr. Haynes assures me the 4HP20 and AL4 are different beasts.
(That probably means a different size drain plug then...)

JohnM52 · Post by **JohnM52** » 15 Jan 2005, 03:34

http://www.jpat.co.uk/jpat_pdfs/ZF%20Ac ... 04HP20.pdf
gives a very detailed picture of the 4HP20 gearbox.
ACTIVE8
You will find very few autoboxes on cars have a drain plug for the torque convertor - Merc W123 being one exception I know of. The majority of convertors are sealed.

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 20 Jan 2005, 19:08

O.K. if that's the case then I stand corrected, but it would make more sense from a maintenance point of view if they actually were included in the design.
If there is a need to change the oil in the gearbox, why should the torque convertor be excluded from oil changes.

dan.2cv · Post by **dan.2cv** » 19 Feb 2005, 21:38

Well I finally changed the oil a few days ago.
Firstly, the filler plug I spent half an hour trying to locate on 'the rear face of the gearbox (BOL)' was actually on the top, nicely hidden by the air box.
It actually took around 5 litres. After the initial 4 I had to go back to the dealer for another bottle and sought some advice whilst I was there to make sure I was doing it all right. The guy told me that if you leave the plug out for long enough, the TC will drain as well, which Is obviously what had happened.
The car seems more sprightly now, it picks up from a standstill much better and seems much smoother in operation.
What surprised me was how thin the oil was which came out- it was like water, I thought it would be much thicker than what was going in, so it must get thinner with age and not thicker.
Although the difference isn't like a new car it's certainly worth it.

JohnM52 · Post by **JohnM52** » 20 Feb 2005, 02:22

Glad you have found a difference. It is hard to quantify - the changes and pull away just feel so much better - my opinion - and it seems you found the same. I am reassured that the measured quantity I got out was not a fluke.