Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

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danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 07 Jul 2019, 11:28

I have exactly the same problem and I'm really glad I've found your post because this has been driving me crazy.

I have a Citroen C4 Picasso 2014 1.6 HDi which I assume has the same engine because it looks the same setup as yours.

I've replaced my battery with a Varta E39 096 Dynamic Silver and now the stop start works (hasn't worked for 6 months or so because of old failing battery).

Now that it's working again it's highlighted another issue, the same as yours.

Whenever I pull up at traffic lights, or even slow down to turn into a side road, the stop start kicks in and stops the engine.
Instead of the engine starting again when I press acceleration, the engine bay squeals and the engine stalls completely.
This leaves me stranded in moving traffic, and needing to manually restart the engine.


I'm almost certain the problem is the same as yours. The alternator belt isn't tight enough and the starter alternator isn't getting enough grip to crank the engine, so it's stalling.

I'm not getting any error messages on the displays or any error codes on ODB2 diagnostic.

I've looked at the alternator belt and the top tensioner is bouncing around even when idling.

I'm getting it booked in with Citroen to replace the belt and the 2 tensioners and really hope this fixes it.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 07 Jul 2019, 12:08

In the interim, just disable stop start until it’s fixed. You’ll have to do it each time you start a journey, but at least it will prevent the issue until sorted.

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 07 Jul 2019, 14:03

Thanks, yes that's what I'm doing in the meantime.
It's scary stuff. Because I have a brand new battery and it's a really good one, stop start wants to work at every opportunity, so if I didn't disable stop start, it would be stalling every few minutes in town traffic.


I'm change them all myself as I'm fairly competent, but it's a tight squeeze where the alternator belt is in mine.
It has an engine mount and also half the belt is covered, so I'd rather it be done by the garage for less hassle.


Does anyone have an idea of a reasonable cost for a Citroen dealer to do the work? Change alternator belt and the 2 tensioners?

Thanks

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 07 Jul 2019, 14:17

Roller tensioner and guide replacement in situ states 2.80 decimal, so 2hrs 48m roughly - at current rates - so if it's £90 an hour say, then £252 plus the VAT - I could be hugley out here - but do let us know. :-D

That's without parts of course.... :roll:

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 07 Jul 2019, 14:50

Thanks very much.
You're great with your quick, accurate and informative responses.

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myglaren
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by myglaren » 07 Jul 2019, 14:52

:yikes:

Is there a decent independent anywhere near that someone could recommend?

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 07 Jul 2019, 15:04

I've uploaded a little clip of my engine with the belt tensioners bouncing.
The video show it as though it's smooth bouncing, but in real life it's very very fast. I think the video didn't get the true speed due to frame rates.



Can you take a look and see if it's normal or not?

You can see both the upper and lower tensioners bouncing, with the alternator perfectly still in the middle of them.
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 07 Jul 2019, 15:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed YouTube links

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 07 Jul 2019, 15:46

danlat1415 wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 14:50
Thanks very much.
You're great with your quick, accurate and informative responses.

Just a thought, I’m not sure when you last changed your timing belt, but it may be more cost-effective if you haven’t, to get a timing belt replacement done. They do charge fixed price repairs for these operations. However, you can also specify the additional kit which includes the tensioning rollers etc., and optional again is the water pump. Looking at the labour it may be worth getting the complete timing belt done which would cure your roller problems at the same time. It’s the labour on these jobs that’s the killer.

Just a thought, but you could get a quote for the job and if anything isn’t covered that you need doing specifically, just ask for it to be added on. It’s usually less to add little bits on whilst they are doing the work in the same area anyway.

Might be worth a quote.

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 07 Jul 2019, 15:59

Thanks for the advice.
I have a 2014 Citroen C4 Picasso (newer facelift model).
It's a 1.6 HDi Deisel and has 54,000 on the clock.
It's never had any of the belts changed according to service history (I've only owned it for 12 months).


My main purpose is to get this belt issue sorted to make the car safe to drive when using stop/start.

What would you recommend I ask the dealer to do?
I'm a little confused by your suggestion, but I get the overall idea.

Do I ask to replace the alternator belt, then ask for the tensioners too (fixed price, plus extras) or do I ask outright to change belt and tensioners)

Would my timing belt need changing yet? I though I'd have a few more years for that?

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 08 Jul 2019, 10:50

I now have it booked in at my local Citroen dealer.
£224 (Inc vat).

That seems fairly reasonable for a Citroen dealer. Also includes a courtesy car.
Not booked in until 19th July so I'll update on the outcome and whether this resolves the issue.

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 08 Jul 2019, 11:47

There are certain jobs that only have to be done very infrequently on cars (such as clutch changes and timing belts). The perceived wisdom is to replace EVERYTHING that could be affected when doing these jobs, otherwise you MAY have to go back in at a later date to fix something in that area that has since failed. For example, it is not unheard off for a water pump (that wasn't replaced at the time) to fail within a few thousand miles of the timing belt being changed.

Your problem appears to be related to the auxiliary belt. I would find out when the timing belt is due to be changed (there is a mileage/age variable, and the belt should be changed when one of these occurs), and, if it is due (or due soon) I would get the timing belt (and its related parts, such as the water pump) done at the same time. This is because the mechanics will be working in the same area, and for almost the same amount of time (the belts 'overlap' and (I believe) the auxiliary bely has to come off when the timing belt is replaced). I DON'T know how much it would be to replace the timing belt as a separate job, but I would not be surprised if the cost of replacing the timing belt, auxiliary belt and related parts to be 40% (or better) cheaper than replacing them as separate jobs (mainly because of the labour time).

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 08 Jul 2019, 11:55

danlat1415 wrote:
08 Jul 2019, 10:50
I now have it booked in at my local Citroen dealer.
£224 (Inc vat).

That seems fairly reasonable for a Citroen dealer. Also includes a courtesy car.
Not booked in until 19th July so I'll update on the outcome and whether this resolves the issue.
I wasn't too far out then :-D

Although it's a little early for the timing belt - age wise (10 years), it's still not a bad idea to get the timing belt done at the same time as you have done 54k. That will give you piece of mind. I think I mentioned - there is the belt, the belt and rollers, and finally the complete belt, rollers and water pump. So up to you, but the labour is the killer on these jobs. Best of luck.

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 08 Jul 2019, 13:51

Thanks.
I've checked with them the timescales and they said it's 100,000 or 10 years.
I've still got just under 4 years left so I'll leave it for now. I may end up changing the car before that point, so worried about saving a cost right now.

danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 13 Jul 2019, 15:24

I have a cheap OBD2 Bluetooth adaptor which showed no faults before today (even though I have stop/start issue with alternator belt tensioners).

Now today I retested it an it had a fault code;
P0272 - Cylinder 4 contribution/balance.


Does anyone know what this is or if it's potentially related to my pre-existing issue or if its another unrelated issue I'll need to get checked?

I've done a search online and it suggests it's a generic fault code that could be for multiple reasons.

As my car does not restart after the 'stop/start' process, instead it stalls and cuts out, I'm hoping it's related....

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Jul 2019, 15:48

Pop your VIN up here and I'll take a look as how the fault relates to your specific ECU.