Normal Lexia behaviour with C5?

[Percy Veerer]

New member here. I've been visiting this forum for quite some time and found it a very helpful source of information. Thanks to all you existing members for your inputs. I'm posting for the first time because I've not found my problem discussed in the forum. Here goes:-
I have a Chinese Lexia clone that I acquired second hand a couple of years ago now, before I knew anything about the different build standards that exist. I now realise it is one of those that I see described as being of poor quality - it has only two of what are described as opto-couplers in the row where other units have many more of these.
According to the Interface Checker I have a card I/D of APPLI_XS_Fuji_P106138A V4.22 @Actia 09.04.09.
Card S/W version 4.2.2. The Windows toolbar shows Lexia V346.22 when it is in use.

I have read that units with this build have a reputation for unreliable communication. However that is not my experience with this, not quite.
When I start a new session of diagnosis my Lexia readily, consistently and reliably interrogates the car, establishes the VIN and accepts the entered RPO. I can use any of the valid menus and dig right down into them. When using the Diagnosis options it readily and reliably communicates with all ECUs. (Although it always puts a question mark into the "Faults" column against one particular ECU, the one at the steering wheel if I remember correctly.) I can then select any one of the lines in the status report and go further into its menus to learn more. I can do a Global Test or test by specific equipment. I can read / erase faults, I have successfully done live monitoring of engine systems parameters during road tests, various actuator tests, aligned the steering wheel angle sensor etc. I seem to have full use of the tool.
However if having delved into any one of the lines in the diagnosis status report I then press the F9 (back/return) button until the diagnostic status report is again shown, and then select any other one of its lines I get a "cannot communicate with an ECU...." message. From that point onwards it is impossible to do anything else with the tool and I have to abandon the session.
Any attempt to start a new session is met with a request to manually enter the VIN and RPO. If I do that it always leads to a "Cannot communicate with vehicle ... " message after selecting Global test .
Even if I switch off the ignition and retry, or shut down Lexia and disconnect the VCI and restart the PC nothing enables communication again. I have found that the only way to start another Lexia session is to leave the ignition switched off for at least 20 minutes. Then all is well and I can once again make only a single enquiry / investigation in a new session.
This behaviour makes it very difficult to do any meaningful diagnostic work or make a series of tests or to learn the capabilities of the tool and how to use it.
So my problem is not one of unreliable communication but one of poor functionality of the tool with the car.

I know my battery should be replaced due to its age (original) and it may be contributing to my woes. The behaviour I describe is always present, whether the battery is fully charged (12.7V) or when it is rather depleted (12.4V) and whether or not the engine is running (14.5V at terminals). Certainly during a Lexia session it is not long before Economy Mode is activated and I see that this results in about half the ECUs not communicating during a Global Test, with consequent inability to interrogate any further. Hence I make sure the battery is well charged before using Lexia, and/or run the engine.
I don't think the battery condition is responsible for the Lexia behaviour. It seems to be a "characteristic" of how the car interfaces to the tool. It appears that when the car systems are active the BSI will allow only a single interrogation of the ECUs after which the Lexia is locked out, and the lock is only removed when the car systems go back into their deep sleep mode.

Is this the normal behaviour of the Lexia software / tool?
I have read that some Lexia tools do "not work" with a C5. Is this what is meant by that statement?
Considering the ? mark against an ECU, is my S/W build inappropriate for the car?

Are any of you experienced users of Lexia with a C5 able to shed clear light on what is going on here so I can much more quickly and conveniently get on with some work on the car?

Many thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

No it's not normal behaviour - and if you have the engine running, Economy mode will be disabled, so I think you have other issues with your kit - none that we can easily diagnose on a Forum unfortunately as there are many such clones on the market and they are NOT all equal.

Are you actually running Diagbox, from which you are launching Lexia, or are you running the stand alone version of lexia?

As you probably know, Lexia has not been updated for years as most post 2007 cars now use Diagbox. Diagbox is updated to account for the newer ECUs fitted to vehicles and to be able to interface with the newer software.

Either your version of Lexia is not recognising the specific ECU (do you have the name of it, or is it just blank with a question mark? I note you have a 2006, so it would be on the last / later run of vehicles of the MK II C5. It is possible that a slightly later version of Lexia may fix the unknown ECU issue, but won't I suspect sort out the communication / locking out issue. That is not normal and may be down to the hardware unit itself. There should also be a 10k resistor present on the hardware that is used in CAN communications too - especially with the C5. If that is missing it may mean your unit is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

[Percy Veerer]

Marc,
Thanks for the prompt reply and for confirming that the behaviour I see is not normal.
I have only the stand-alone version of Lexia software.
The ECU that always has a ? in the "Fault" column of the diagnostic report is indeed the switch unit below steering wheel.
I remember seeing a thread showing the location of the critical 100Kohm resistor but now can't find it. Can you point me to it so I can check mine?
If it helps anyone to make sense of this, my unit has 9780.Z5 on a bar coded paper label and marked on the body in black ink. On a silver label with the CE mark on it it has the designation 921815B/40W07/0005451

[GiveMeABreak]

No problem, have a look on my post here with the picture showing the location:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59785&hilit=10k+resistor#p570919
Note: to see the area in close up, click the same image a few posts up on that link without the arrow that I copied to superimpose an arrow on to show Gibbo where the resistor was. It will zoom up significantly on that picture.


That serial number (921815B) indicates it is a revision 'B' unit, which is the older kit. Could be another reason for the communications problems.

Concerning the problematic ECU - that will be the Switching Block Remote Control or 'Comms' unit as commonly referred to pictured below. The switching module under the steering wheel is a monoblock unit which groups the following components:

• The lighting stalk (1)
• The stalk bracket (2)
• The rotary connector (3)
• The wiper stalk (4)
• The audio system control (5) (according to model)
• The cruise control stalk (6) (according to model)

The switching module under the steering wheel is the man/machine interface for for the radio controls, cruise control, wipers and lighting.
The switching module under the steering wheel retransmits the driver’s actions to the BSI1 via the multiplexed BODY CAN.

The switching module under the steering wheel also assures the following functions:

• Control of the buzzer incorporated in the stalk support in relation to the sound requests transmitted by the BSI1
• Reception of HF messages from the plip and the deflation emitters
• Communication with the transponder for the engine immobiliser
• Retransmission of information from the steering wheel angle sensor

[Percy Veerer]

Update :-
The car has a new battery and a BSI reset procedure has been followed to set everything up correctly.
I fitted the missing 10K resistor to the interface unit.
I didn't see any change in the way the interface communicated with the car. Comms with the Module Below Steering Wheel still had a "?" for its status - so much for the missing 10K resistor fix.
So I've been working on this to try to confirm if I have some kind of incorrect software installation or that I need to spend £100 + to get an interface unit that is fully "chipped".
I manually deleted and removed Lexia SW from the registry of the laptop and re-installed it to version 345 - absolutely no communication with the car.
I applied the update that is on my SW CD to bring it back to V346.22 - did not communicate every time. When it did it never gave communication with any more than the BSI and Fault Code line of the Global Diagnosis ECU list. (perversely the SCANTOOL would read only the Injection ECU and read its faults)
Fully wiped and re-installed XP and Lexia 3 to version 345 - poor communication with the car and again only the first two lines.
Updated to version V346.22 again - better communication with car but so far only 1 in 3 attempts has resulted in communication with all the ECUs. On the other two attempts the ECUs showing comms failure have not been the same.
It still only allows comms once in several hours and then if not all ECU communicate then any other investigative action is blocked.
So I now have a worse situation than I had before all that work and really can't get on to sort out why I keep getting an anti-pollution system warning.

Are these comms issues familiar to anyone?
Do they make sense to anyone?
Can I be confident that if I get a full chip interface unit that they will be resolved?

Thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

There is no guarantee that the 10k resistor will provide the fix - it is not something I would of bothered with as there are plenty of other components missing in the non full-chip kits and as I've mentioned on other threads, there are just too many variables to factor in when determining faults with the clone devices.

Personally I would get a new full chip unit (there is a discount code for members from Easydiagnostics) if you look at the announcement section of the Diagnostics section of this Forum.

The C5 is one such car that is known to have known communications problems with clone devices that are not full-chip kits. The annoying thing is the Chinese suppliers are still selling older clones with missing hardware - making out they are the bees knees, but if you see any thing for less than £100 be extremely suspicious about what you are getting. Some sellers do declare in the smallest of writing buries in the blurb that there are comms difficulties or that it won't work with the C5 and Peugeot 308 - but not all of them.

I'm sorry that you didn't get a fix, but it is just not a guarantee. You may have some of the Optocouplers missing and a few other parts required.

[Hargy]

Apologies if this isn't the best place for a clone query.
I bought my Lexia / diagbox set up quite some time ago thinking I had a good one, but after rational got the better of my ignorance I opened it.
Going on the photos and info here (thankyou GiveMeABreak):

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59785&hilit=10k+resistor#p570919

I see that I’m missing the 10k restistor,
also a blue flux capacitor,
and a row of small monopoly house looking Nand/nor gate like circuits.

I’m handy with a soldering iron, but think it wise to ask if it is worth it? Or buy a new reputable one per some kind soles link please?
It has always been a headache to connect, slow and struggles / doesnt connect to many systems.
I have a 2004 C5 mk1 which I love (with choice words when undertaking mechanical yoga…).
Thanks in advance

[GiveMeABreak]

If it was me, I wouldn't bother to be honest as there are other components including a different chip on the newer full chip kits.

[Rp0thejester]

Parts would cost more than a new unit, I bought mine from eBay and works so far but I can't guarantee it's not a fake. There is a supplier on here whose some what recommend, Easy diagnostics

[GiveMeABreak]

They're all clones of the original Actia unit as the originals costs £0000's - but not all clones are equal in quality .....

[Hargy]

Thanks Marc I’ll abandon my pos.
I’ll have a look at Easy Diagnostics - thanks Ryan