'05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

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kenhall1202
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'05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

I have a problem when trying use Lexia 3 to reset the two counters (additive and DPF).
Basically when I perform the Global diagnostic test Lexia can communicate with all sections apart from the two categories covering the additive pump and the related ECU. All other Lexia options for getting to the additive ECU also fail to communicate.
The additive system is working because I recently refilled the Eolys 176 tank (in advance of getting a warning) and used about 3 litres to fill it.
I have a "depollution system faulty" indication showing and Lexia diagnosis shows a permanent fault "Additive system Maximum additive level in the particle filter reached". I find this surprising as the original DPF was replaced by a dealer at 40k miles following an engine runaway incident. My assumption is that the dealer did not reset the filter dust counter when the DPF was replaced.
The car runs fine but maybe not for much longer if I am unable to sort this out. My aim is to get the DPF cleaned and the counters reset.
My Lexia 3 is a pretty old pre Diagbox Chinese clone circa 2008.
Advice please!
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You're misunderstanding the terminology, but not surprising given some of it gets lost in translation.

Its nothing to do with the clogging of the DPF in this case, what that means is the additive ECU has determined the amount of additive that has been injected into the system is nearing the limit for the amount of additive in the system, so is now telling you to top it up. The additive tank itself is not measured directly for volume of additive it holds - it just works out what should be in there from new, then the mileage and number of injections to estimate the level and when it thinks it needs topping up.

You don't touch the DPF settings - that is for when the DPF is replaced. Your problem is that because you cannot reset the additive ECU counter to zero, (in other words, no additive has been injected as I have filled it up) the ECU still thinks it has injected the maximum into the system and now needs refilling.

The added problem is that either your Lexia is unable to do this as it is too old or the software is not new enough for the vehicle to communicate with the ECU, or the ECU itself is faulty. I do know that on some earlier PSA vehicles the additive ECUs had problems and needed replacing as they couldn't be reset. Which it is in this case I can't say obviously from here.

So I would suggest that you either locate somebody with another Lexia that may be a bit later than yours and try with that one - or if the same results occur with a newer interface and software, then I suspect you will need to replace the additive ECU. I do know that my Citroen C5 MK II 2005 was able to be reset by the dealer no problem when I had the additive refilled (before I had my own Lexia at the time).

If you have your VIN (PM or Post it) I can look up and see what system you have and may be able to provide some more info.
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kenhall1202
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

Hello Marc,
Thanks for the reply.

VIN = VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]******* and RP=10460

Am I right in thinking that the additive ECU is located under the dash on the left?
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 20 Jun 2018, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: VIN Masked
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Ken

Yes, the additive ECU on the MKII C5 sits to the left of the centre fascia, to the left of the blower. So you may need to get at it with the glovebox removed.
C4 Additive ECU.PNG
So you have the Siemens fuel injection system on your DW10BTED4 138 HDi engine.

What version of Diagbox are you using, or are you using a stand alone version of Lexia?
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'74 DS D Super 5 (Superb comfort and even more rust)
'?? Dyane (fun + rust)
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'89 CX Safari 2.5 DTR turbo (aka "the hearse" an excellent family load lugger)
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

Hello Marc,

I have the Lexia3 program v44 or 45 installed on a Toshiba Tecra laptop running Windows XP. I have dabbled with Diagbox in the past but found that my older Chinese interface unit was not compatible with later Diagbox versions and reverted back to Lexia3.

I still find it odd that I am getting the permanent fault stored "Additive system Maximum additive level in the particle filter reached" but not getting any dash display warning or reminder message to top up the additive.

I will check out the additive ECU connector and wiring in view of it's exposed location.

Ken
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by RichardW »

kenhall1202 wrote: 20 Jun 2018, 20:29
I still find it odd that I am getting the permanent fault stored "Additive system Maximum additive level in the particle filter reached" but not getting any dash display warning or reminder message to top up the additive.


That error means what you think Ken - i.e. that the additive residue / ash in the filter has reached the predetermined (and probably arbitrary!) limit. 85k miles is quite early for this to happen (came on at well over 100k on both my 1.6s, but maybe the 2.0 is different) - it didn't stop the filter regenning though. If the filter was replaced at 40k, then I would do a forced regen (observe the precautions :lol: ) and then re-set it. Are there any BSM faults showing? My 307 said it couldn't communicate with the additive ECU, which I think was due to a fault on the BSM causing loss of comms. The ECU was still working, as it was like that all the time I had it (60k). It may be possible to reset the additive level via the injection ECU, check the repair options.
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

75k miles is actually the alert limit for this system, as can be seen from the table below using the third column for the DW10BTED4 engine on this vehicle.:

Click on images / tables to zoom
Additive Injected Levels.png
The vehicle is also Euro Standard 4.

There is also another thing you can check - as this model C4 (not Picasso) has a separate additive ECU. There can be communication problems caused by one of the fuses that controls both the diagnostic and the additive ECU. It is fuse F11 located in the BSI fuse box as I described earlier - glovebox area, and marked in green below. Although the fuse may appear ok, replacing it with a new one will eliminate this as a suspect and has been successful with others. As others have found, these type of fuses can suffer 'fatigue' and become prone to intermittent operation.
Addive-Fuse.PNG
This is the Additive controller unit EAS 300 (ADDGO). But I can't say for sure where this is located on the C4 Saloon.
EAS300.PNG
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kenhall1202
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'74 DS D Super 5 (Superb comfort and even more rust)
'?? Dyane (fun + rust)
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'89 CX Safari 2.5 DTR turbo (aka "the hearse" an excellent family load lugger)
'97 XM 2.1TD (Reliable and economical)
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

Thanks for that Richard, I will follow up your suggestions.

My understanding of the particle filter fitted to my C4 2.0HDI at RP No 10460 is that it is the later enlarged capacity type (longer with more filter area) which should have a life of 120K miles in theory!
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'?? Dyane (fun + rust)
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'89 CX Safari 2.5 DTR turbo (aka "the hearse" an excellent family load lugger)
'97 XM 2.1TD (Reliable and economical)
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

Hello Marc,

Thanks for that info - I will check out your F11 fuse suggestion. I believe I saw a similar fix on a Peugeot forum in one of my internet trawls.

Ken
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I have the same engine (albeit with some mods for later Euro approval), and the same Siemens Engine ECU - but on my C5 X7, there is no separate Additive ECU - it is controlled by the Injection ECU, but on yours you have the separate module that I showed an image of in my last post. So I believe you need to have communication with it in order to reset the counter back to zero.

And for the price of a fuse, I would really suggest replacing it to eliminate doubt about that as the issue Ken.
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'74 DS D Super 5 (Superb comfort and even more rust)
'?? Dyane (fun + rust)
'?? CX 2400 GTI (served me well)
'89 CX Safari 2.5 DTR turbo (aka "the hearse" an excellent family load lugger)
'97 XM 2.1TD (Reliable and economical)
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by kenhall1202 »

Update

I changed F11 and F4 (for good measure seeing as it is associated with the additive system). Both fuses looked fine and showed zero resistance across them.

My old C4 Docbackup 2008 saved printouts indicated that the additive ECU was located behind the BSI and so the glovebox was removed (with difficulty seeing as Citroen had helpfully hidden the final fixing screw behind the airbag warning label !!). Only the ECU connector can be seen/accessed easily and not fancying BSI removal I simply inspected the contacts and 'exercised' the plug in and out a few times.

After a struggle to get Lexia to connect to to the car (always seems to require a great deal of wiggling of the diagnostic plug to get proper contact) the Global test showed dialogue with the additive ECU (hooray!) but not with the additive pump. Anyhow this meant that I was able to reset both counters to zero. Strictly speaking I should also replace my FAP but I believe it still has a way to go. The indicated pressure drop across it is low.

The depollution system faulty message has cleared.

Many thanks Marc and Richard for your advice - much appreciated.

Ken
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I had an issue some time back with the rear wiper on my C5 estate being intermittent. I checked the fuse, and it was fine. I changed it anyway, and the wiper worked properly. I inserted the old fuse several times, and it is also working properly. All I can imagine was that there was tarnish on the blades and pinch contacts, and the repeated in/out swaps cleaned them up.
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Re: '05 85K mile C4 2.0HDI Lexia 3 advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

kenhall1202 wrote: 25 Jun 2018, 10:53 Update
Only the ECU connector can be seen/accessed easily and not fancying BSI removal I simply inspected the contacts and 'exercised' the plug in and out a few times.

After a struggle to get Lexia to connect to to the car (always seems to require a great deal of wiggling of the diagnostic plug to get proper contact) the Global test showed dialogue with the additive ECU (hooray!) but not with the additive pump.

The depollution system faulty message has cleared.

Many thanks Marc and Richard for your advice - much appreciated.

Ken

Great news - your VCI may be suffering from loose pins / contacts at the plug. This is a known issue, so some inspection here might help and a bit of careful soldering. As it is out of warranty, I would not worry about opening it. Also very important if you are undertaking any telecoding, because a loss of communication when telecoding can cause an ECU to be left in an incorrect state, causing further issues... But glad you have it sorted. It is quite normal for the additive to be refilled on the same particle filter - they should last upwards of 120k miles at least with the later ones IIRC.
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