RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 15:52

A plan is brewing in my mind.......

Amplifier: JBL GX-A604 - Class AB
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/amplifi ... bl-gx-a604
Image

Speakers:

4x JBL Stage 600CE, A kit of 2x 6.5" speakers with 55mm tweeters.
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/jbl-sta ... t-speakers
Image

All in about £200.

I plan to buy a quadlock extension and splice in the amplifier in-between the RD45 speaker output cables, that way I can leave the original harness undisturbed.

The Amp can take line level and speaker level inputs so I'm covered either way.

Just looking at mounting options,

1. Whereabouts is the optional extra amplifier mounted in the C5? Ideally I'd like to hide it away if possible.
2. Are the doors a pain to get apart in order to change the speakers?
3. Are C5 X7 speakers 6.5" or 165mm as the Citroen service website suggests?
4. Can a hefty power source be obtained from the fuse box in the glove box? I'm not going to drill the bulkhead....
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 16:13

On the Tourer it was located in the rear side wall panel of the loading area. On the saloon it was located in the passenger glovebox, next to the cooling inlet for the Air conditioning (round black vent cap that can be opened or closed).
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 16:24

GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:13
On the Tourer it was located in the rear side wall panel of the loading area. On the saloon it was located in the passenger glovebox, next to the cooling inlet for the Air conditioning (round black vent cap that can be opened or closed).


Is that behind where the sub woofer would be located?

Ideally behind the glovebox would be best, i'm just looking at dimensions, it's 300 x 200 mm, so not exactly small unfortunately :( . I could perhaps, if I had to, mount it to the underside of the parcel shelf as thats a solid metal surface although that would be a last resort.
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 16:28

EDC5 wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 15:52
1. Whereabouts is the optional extra amplifier mounted in the C5? Ideally I'd like to hide it away if possible.
2. Are the doors a pain to get apart in order to change the speakers?
3. Are C5 X7 speakers 6.5" or 165mm as the Citroen service website suggests?
4. Can a hefty power source be obtained from the fuse box in the glove box? I'm not going to drill the bulkhead....
  1. On the Tourer it was located in the rear side wall panel of the loading area. On the saloon it was located in the passenger glovebox, next to the cooling inlet for the Air conditioning (round black vent cap that can be opened or closed).
  2. Procedure is to remove the door panel (battery disconnection first and wait 3 mins - (ECU)), to access the speaker bolts. Assuming you won't need to change the housings, that's it - otherwise you'll have to drift and drill out the rivets to remove the casing. Ditto this for the rears.
    As for the Teeter you just unclip it as shown to remove it:
    Tweeter.png
  3. Yes, they are 165mm
  4. Looking at the manual - if the original HiFi option were fitted, then it would use fuse G39, a 30A fuse to power the HiFi and the Electric Seats. G39 is in the passenger compartment fuse box attached to the BSI.
Just make sure the system is CAN compatible though. :-D
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 16:33

EDC5 wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:24
Is that behind where the sub woofer would be located?

Ideally behind the glovebox would be best, i'm just looking at dimensions, it's 300 x 200 mm, so not exactly small unfortunately :( . I could perhaps, if I had to, mount it to the underside of the parcel shelf as thats a solid metal surface although that would be a last resort.


Here's the general locations:
Speaker Mounts.png
Here's a close up of the Sub Woofer - it's mounted in the boot on the right hand side recess as per pic:
Subwoofer.png
As long as there is air to cool the amp - you don't want that cooking in the dash area.
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 16:44

Thats great, thanks.

I managed to find the first pic of the speaker locations and gleaned the speaker size, good to check that it's correct though.

Is it a big job getting the door panels off? Will I break 50 litle clips and forever be plagued with rattles :x ?

Do you know if it was possible to spec the external amplifier with the RD4 or was it only available on the Nav units?

I think I'll do the Amp job first as it's probably the most challenging.

Re the cooling, ideally when bolted to a metal surface the heat should be sunk away into the bodywork, otherwise I could redirect the glovebox AC feed over the AMP :-D
GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:28

Just make sure the system is CAN compatible though. :-D
I hope thats a joke :o
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 24 Jul 2017, 16:57

Where PSA vehicles are concerned, making sure the system is CAN compatible is unlikely to be a joke!
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 17:04

No worries Elis - just make sure the cheque doesn't bounce :-D

Door Panels: Yes and yes - the trim (on mine at least) has the painted trim inserts and I took these off once before to re-paint and lacquer them as the original coating was as thin as gnats p. They were really hard as the plastic trimmclips are so fragile and not something I would want to do again TBH, The Door panel handle surrounds have to come off and with the arm handle and of course the electrical connectors to the ambient lighting (you probably won't have these - bonus!)
  1. This just to get to the speaker housing - but - I would try and remove the speaker covers first and have a squiz to see if that is really necessary and whether that exposes the speaker screws or not.
  2. No, the Concert Pack (HiFi Amp) as it was at the time in 08/09 was only available for Navidrive 3D
  3. Good idea - apart from room, there would really be too much heat pumping out from the dash if it was mounted behind there - smokey Jo situation!
  4. Good luck with the amp, looking forward to LOTS of picture Elis! :-D
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 17:05

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:57
Where PSA vehicles are concerned, making sure the system is CAN compatible is unlikely to be a joke!


Haha :-D that doesn't surprise me.

In this setup the headunit will still be the RD45 and the amp will be connected to the analogue output(s) of the headunit so no need to get the CAN involved mercifully.
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 17:17

GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 17:04
No worries Elis - just make sure the cheque doesn't bounce :-D

Door Panels: Yes and yes - the trim (on mine at least) has the painted trim inserts and I took these off once before to re-paint and lacquer them as the original coating was as thin as gnats p. They were really hard as the plastic trimmclips are so fragile and not something I would want to do again TBH, The Door panel handle surrounds have to come off and with the arm handle and of course the electrical connectors to the ambient lighting (you probably won't have these - bonus!)
  1. This just to get to the speaker housing - but - I would try and remove the speaker covers first and have a squiz to see if that is really necessary and whether that exposes the speaker screws or not.
  2. No, the Concert Pack (HiFi Amp) as it was at the time in 08/09 was only available for Navidrive 3D
  3. Good idea - apart from room, there would really be too much heat pumping out from the dash if it was mounted behind there - smokey Jo situation!
  4. Good luck with the amp, looking forward to LOTS of picture Elis! :-D



Haha, good one! :rofl2:

Right, Amp is definitely the first job.... seeing as the doors will be b**ta*ds!, I'll have a look at the door speaker covers first however the back doors will need to come apart completely as the tweeters are in the bulk of the door frame according to that picture. I do have the ambient lighting in the door handles ..... is this unusual?

Yeah after an electrical fire in my dad’s old 307 (that he briefly owned), I'd rather not have one in the C5, plus Class AB amps tend to pump out a lot of heat, even at idle.

I'll do my best with pictures... they do tend to liven up any forum thread in my opinion.

One thing, I'm going to need to find a switched 12v live that comes on when the radio is turned on to trigger the amp, I can’t just use the ignition live as that would mean no radio without having the key in, I'll check the pinout of the RD45 hopefully there will be something :roll:
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 17:23

EDC5 wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:44
GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 16:28
Just make sure the system is CAN compatible though. :-D
I hope thats a joke :o
Actually no - the factory fit system has a separate ECU and the wiring was different as were the speakers on the Concert Pack. An example: on mine with the front / rear parking assistance:- apart from the visual display on the screen, the speakers are turned on or off front and rear, left / right and the volume increased or decreased depending on location of and proximity to obstacles. So that's one example of system integration. Vborovic, when he embarked on his mega update of his stock tourer on his mission to 'Exclusivise' :roll: it, ended up acquiring an original HiFi amp and speakers IIRC, but he ran into some issues - have a browse at the topic when you have a spare week: :-D
https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 15#p480329
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 17:29

Yes, the BSI has control over the components - so can switch everything into 'you've had your lot for today, time for Economy mode' :evil: With all the welly needed for the the amp. I reckon you'll get all of 30 seconds before that kicks in :rofl2: So I would just focus on getting it working with the car running - as the economy mode will still kick in with the ignition on - I effectively have 20 seconds of audio before mine does - with ignition on or off! I think mine is because I have a different type of battery - a large AGM and the car expects a normal battery - so with that and the battery charge status device having their way, the powered seats moving into position when car is opened - NG4 and big screen an everything else powering on before I even get in it - it all says no, you can't have any tunes without starting the car :twisted:
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 19:56

I've actually spent a few days with that thread so far :P In a perfect world I'd already have the loom for the factory fit amp and it would be a plug and play.... but no...

https://www.drive2.com/l/10293496/

Someone far braver than me determined to do a "proper job"

In my car the reverse sensor sound seems to be handled by the head unit, so with an amp upgrade that wouldn't need changing.

If I knew what I was doing I'd be able to rig up some sort of CAN controlled relay that looked for the radio turn on signal on the bus to turn the amp on but alas.

From the pinout maybe pin 14 would be a good trigger, "retractable screen signal"?

or maybe pin 9 power supply for screen?

Image

Yeah I think the car measures the current to determine the point where it deems that you've "had enough" so I think you're right with regards to a power hungry amp!

I'm planning to run a thick 16 way cable between the butchered quad lock extension and the amp with the 4 channels (+ and -) there and back. So I'll be able to position the amp in a convenient location.
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by GiveMeABreak » 24 Jul 2017, 20:38

That pinouts from a peugeot for sure - some of those models have a retractable multifunction screen in the dash - that may not be there in the C5 wiring as they never had them - or may be missing I wouldn't touch anything there to be honest - how many amps is the amp going to draw? The one in the top picture you posted has 2x20A fuses in it - so that suggests a fair bit?
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Re: RD45 questions + Microphone installation C5 X7 + Amplifier installation

Post by EDC5 » 24 Jul 2017, 20:42

GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 20:38
That pinouts from a peugeot for sure - some of those models have a retractable multifunction screen in the dash - that may not be there in the C5 wiring as they never had them - or may be missing I wouldn't touch anything there to be honest - how many amps is the amp going to draw? The one in the top picture you posted has 2x20A fuses in it - so that suggests a fair bit?


Ah okay, I may get my meter or my oscilloscope out and see the what the various pins are doing. The amplifier has a permanent 12v connection (for thick cable) but it also has a trigger pin, this should be a low current (probably just enough to switch a relay to fire up the amplifier)

I think I'll probably just connect the trigger to ingnition live initially as it seems a lot easier haha.
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