C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

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Lasse
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Lasse » 11 Aug 2014, 18:11

The car came originally with the RD4 radio and etouch/connecting box (=USB port in arm rest). The RD4 treats the connection box as a CD changer and has no real USB link. If I could find the connecting box, I could take the USB cable from it and connect it to the new RT6.
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 11 Aug 2014, 18:23

Do you maybe mean the USB BOX?

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... that's the only thing that comes to mind that acts like a CD changer AFAIK ...
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Lasse » 11 Aug 2014, 19:28

Bad quality, but still recognisable:
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USB and AUX-in. The connecting box comes as standard for the C5 Exclusive.
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 11 Aug 2014, 19:55

Oh, you mean the connector (with the plastic lid), not the box ... I'm not sure how it works, RD4 doesn't have a USB connector in its back, but without any adapter (like the USB BOX) just direct connection to the CD changer wires isn't enough in my opinion ... I think the only thing you're missing now is the USB cable which goes from the RT6 back side connector to the connector in the handrest compartment ... part no. 6574RT
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Lasse » 11 Aug 2014, 20:42

Ideally I would like to know where the box is located. I could then take the cable from there to the RT6 or even remove the box completely. Does someone know: Is the "connection box" (Citroen calls it this) linked to etouch? The connection box has a microphone for the BT-hands-free functionality. Is etouch sharing this mic or is it a independent system?
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 11 Aug 2014, 20:58

Like I said, I don't think the RD4 and RT6 have similar connectors to accommodate that box (at least, not those that are standard) ... I know that the mic is in the roof part, where the orange ambient lights are, and is directly connected to the radio, to the quadlock connector, one of the smaller plugs, two cables only (actually, I have one genuine spare microphone right next to me ... :D ) ... that's so on the RNEG's and RT6's, seen them both ... but, as for the etouch, didn't have access to car equipped with one, so I don't know what the modifications are to the wiring system to know what would be useable in your case ...
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 12 Aug 2014, 22:49

And finally, today is the day I've completed the microphone installation in the other C5. It almost went as planned, but as always, some interesting things occurred. First, I thought that there were no wires for the microphone going from the roof to somewhere closer to the nav unit. Wrong. Actually, the connector for the microphone and the 2 wire flat cable is already in place, and it goes down to the left side tweeter location, where it connects to a connection socket, along with the cables for roof lighting and roof passenger belt indication, orange ambient lights as well (my car left hand drive, my guess for the UK cars, it would be located on the right side). But, from there on it was impossible to figure out where the cable goes (if it exists) towards the nav unit. Figured out I'll stick to my first idea, and that is to pull a new wire, directly connect to the microphone wires and then through the right side (front passenger) to go behind the nav screen, and lower the cable, where it would connect to the quadlock part, smaller white connector (MIC + & -). This went well, tested it, and it works flawlessly, mic quality like on my car and the owner is also happy to finally have a useable communication platform in the car.

RNEG pulled out, 2 required wires for the mic put in place (B&W)

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Ceiling light removed

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Found the microphone cable

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Put the microphone in its rightful place, which replaced the beige plastic which was in its place to cover the hole

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Traced the original mic wire to the driver side tweeter location

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Preparation to pull through the new wire

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Microphone original connector cut off, preparation for soldering to the new wire

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Almost finished, wire pulled through, its wires were tied around the B&W connector pins, and isolated

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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Lasse » 13 Aug 2014, 17:16

Got mine done as well:
The microphone was already in place, the connection box is sharing it with etouch. The connection box had the same USB connector as the RT6, so no cutting/soldering was required just some rerouting of the cable. AUX-in went from the USB/AUX socket to the conn box as well, was easy to add to the RT6.
The connection box was located above the glove box, which was somewhat tricky to remove. Inside are a 7 visible screws (Torx20), then it becomes somewhat nasty, the cover has to go to reveal 3 more screws. Both lights need to be removed (in and below glove box), the passenger airbag switch has to be disconnected. The A/C nozzle to the glove box has to be pulled down, the hose can be pushed up then and the glove box will slide out. With the A/C hose properly secured on the top end, it is relatively easy to reconnect it and put everything else back together.
The RT6/display installation was less troublesome than fixing these details, but in the end this is now as close as it gets to an originally fitted emyway.
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 22 Aug 2014, 06:57

Finally I can announce that the HiFi setup is up and running in the car ... it took me a week to figure out everything, and how-stuff-works ... :D ... if you don't have the full schematics for this one, don't even attempt this procedure, because you will miss something, some small detail which in turn will cause the amplifier to not work ... the pictures will come a bit later, I'll just run through the small details ...

I've used one quadlock extension (like you usually get for the Parrot system), to hook it/wire it to the existing quadlock on the back of the nav unit ... the first main difference is that, without the amp, the nav unit sends the signals for 4 speakers (not 6 as you would expect, being there are tweeters in the front ... those go through 8 wires) directly ... when the hifi is in place, the car outputs signals left and right channel (using 4 wires) to the amp input, which then outputs signals for 8 speakers (pair of tweeters, pair of front woofers, pair of rear woofers and two for the subwoofer) ... important thing to note: if there is any fault in the connections regarding the amp (you can easily check that with DiagBox), you won't get any sound output, period. This is to protect the amp itself (it also has a built-in overheating protection, which will disable it if it is under extreme temperature ... talk about smart) ...

I had an issue that by using the DiagBox, I couldn't change the amp type, something about protected telecoding (this never happened before, and the only two things that have changed from one of the previous DiagBox sessions were the update to the 2.80 FW and the newer versions of DiagBox - 7.49 currently) ... so, I had to make use of MiraScripts, to directly change the amp type on the nav unit ... now, here's where I've wasted most time doing nothing ... after rewiring and getting everything in place per the official schematics, the amp was showing that both tweeters were missing or not wired properly ... I did almost every thinkable check, until it hit me hours later that there is a "mean" trick to them, hence the difference in the tweeters which are installed in the car depending on the regular or hifi option ... the "regular" tweeters have a small capacitor, which lower the output sound, and I've soldered the test wires to the lower output ... this caused the issue of the amp not seeing the proper tweeter ... when I soldered it not to go through the capacitor, everything was working. Why is that? In the non-hifi setup, the front tweeters are connected in parallel with the front woofers, and they have their output sound limited (for at least several reasons that come to mind) ... in a hifi setup, they have the output sound boosted, because they really only play higher frequencies ... after this hack was done, it was all working as it should ... then we've put the genuine tweeter cables aside, and pulled through new tweeter wires, and the tweeters were in place once again ...

After some minor adjustments to the connections/connectors on the amp, we were all set to finalize the procedure, and during one of the regular sound checks, we've figured there's no sound coming from the subwoofer in the boot ... now what? I've hooked the DiagBox, did the sound check, and the subwoofer responded nicely ... but the radio sound wouldn't go to it ... turned out one of the subwoofer paired cables were rewired (negative to positive and vice-verse, and it wouldn't play sounds properly) ... after changing the connectors to the right place, the subwoofer was humming again ... then, the subwoofer had to be placed in the upholstery hole, which meant uncovering it slightly (few bolts and hooks), and it went under it, and we fixed it by 2 screws in the floor an one nut in the already placed fixed bolt on the side ... now what I'm currently missing still is to put the passenger compartment and covers in place, and to cover the subwoofer with the lid, rather than than compartment for small items which was occupying the hole before the subwoofer came into it ...

Once again, was it worth it? Don't expect to be blown by the sound (although I still have to find the best bass/treble setup), and you're really limited with fine tuning compared to the after market setups, but the tweeters now play higher sounds and you really feel the high frequencies coming at you from the front, and the subwoofer fills the bass department neatly from the back of the car ... I've read several comments that the Philips non-hifi and hifi speakers can't hold the candle compared to the JBLs ones that were fitted in the 1st & 2nd C5s, and people changed those to get much better and cleaner sound (which makes sense, just comparing the target audience for both of the companies) ... didn't recheck, but the location of the screws should be on the same places for the both generation speakers ... now, it wouldn't make sense to put 6+ year old speakers in the car, which aren't that cheap and available as second hand on the market, so I'll rethink a bit, and maybe put new (and better) speakers in the doors (the only thing that's holding me back is that the entire door panel/cover must come off for this procedure) ... also, on the hifi setup, the rear doors actually have 2 speakers, 1 woofer and 1 tweeter ... which are wired in parallel (remember that the non-hifi setup has that solution for the front woofer/tweeters) ... so what I had in mind is to have a one-way (component) speaker pair for the front doors and a pair of two-way speakers for the back, and the sound should be even better than it is currently... the speaker selection is among several possible brands, from JBL, Hertz, Alpine ... but, that's another story ...

[hifi amp holder, shown side holds the amp on the 3 silver screws]

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[subwoofer in boot, not yet in place]

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[amp in place, green connector is for external AUX in the glovebox, brown connector for the on/off passenger airbag, white light for the glovebox, directly above the light, black plastic hose, that directs air for the cooling of the glovebox]

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[tweeter rewiring/soldering preparation]

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[working view/scene most of the time]

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[back of tweeter]

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[subwoofer placed under the cover]

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[subwoofer covered, couldn't order the car inside color, like it doesn't exist ... but it look good this way too]

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Last edited by vborovic on 24 Aug 2014, 16:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Xantippa
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Xantippa » 22 Aug 2014, 08:56

Buy a decent 2-way component speakers to front doors. For example I have a pair of Rainbow Germanium 6,5" 2-way component set on mine. You just have to cut out the plastic cup behind bass-speakers and they fit right in. You don´t need any crossovers with that hifi-system, so I think everything should sound nice. In addition, do some damping for the doors, the bass will sound much better after that.

I think pretty much any 6,5" speaker will fit in if you take that plastic cup out, so you don´t have to buy that expensive speakers if you don´t want to.

There´s some images http://www.saunalahti.fi/jepujep/Autohifit/
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 22 Aug 2014, 10:19

Thanks for the link to the images, a great future reference ... I've noticed on the img_2133 that you have ambient lighting in the door open partition, which should light up when you put the hand close to the door, right? Or something along those lines? And, my guess also that you have door handle ambient lighting lit up as well ... that's probably my next phase, which I'd try to link to the new speakers (to avoid opening the door covers twice) ...
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Xantippa
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Xantippa » 22 Aug 2014, 11:30

Yes there are motion sensor activated (very bluish) leds in the door pocket. I think those are not available in newer models, even if it was Exclusive. Door handles are lit too.

Remember to upgrade also your side windows to laminated ones when you open the door. ;-)

After taking those images I´ve also upgraded tweeter and subwoofer installations. Tweeters are now on original positions, but grilles are tailored with fiber glass so that tweeters are aimed at listener. And subwoofer is installed inside 17" spare wheel under the boot floor.
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 22 Aug 2014, 12:46

So, you're more oriented on a custom setup while I on the other hand am looking for the genuine layout of things (as per the service documentation) ... any chance to take a photo of those door pocket leds, just to figure out their location? ... as for the door handle, I think it shouldn't pose a problem (the plastic cover is different that has the orange light, actually, piece of plastic that emits light), but the sensor part is still not clear with me, I know there are different door panel trims, depending on the hifi (basically just the emblem strip on top of the speaker) and/or the ambient/suppressed light available (I'm guessing the sensor activated lights are built into the door panel?)
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Xantippa
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by Xantippa » 22 Aug 2014, 12:51

If you look at that image closely, you can see those two leds. Wires for them come from that box near the speaker grill. There are two of them, the front one is aimed at back and back one to front.

That yellow wire is the sensor, I´m not quite sure how that actually works. There´s a lot more of that wire under that damping material. That wire is better visible in this image: http://www.saunalahti.fi/jepujep/Autohifit/IMG_2131.JPG
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Re: C5 X7 2-in-1 navigation tutorial

Post by vborovic » 22 Aug 2014, 13:03

I've found just that sensor module with the LEDs, on another forum, and here's how that looks stand-alone:

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I've figured out where they are located, in the top corners, and they're kind of like spot lights from top to bottom ... shame they're blue, I'd like it more if they were orange, but, will see what to do about them when and if I get to it ... I just hope they're not linked to the same input as the under wheel and passenger glovebox, because we haven't been able to get the input from the official schematics (go figure), so it is still hardwired to be linked with the headlights on (low beam) ...

EDIT: I remember qprdude talking about this auto-light door pocket feature on his car, so if he's interested, this is how that magic looks like from the other side of the door ... :)
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