disconnecting bendix abs

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hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 12 Jun 2002, 19:11

hi guys,
i drive a 605 (j reg) with a factory fitted bendix abs. the abs is giving loads of problems. sometimes there is no brake assistance at all. seriously thinking of disconnecting the abs and fitting conventional brakes (probably using a 406 servo and master pump in place of the modulator). new abs pump would cost around 1K - too bloody expensive in relation to the age of the car.
anyone has any ideas if this can be done?
thanks in advance.
cheers,
hari

NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 21:11
x 1

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by NiSk » 12 Jun 2002, 19:25

Assuming the fusebox on the 605 resembles it's sister car (Citroën XM) all you need to do is remove fuse 1. This disables the ABS computer and gives you good, old fashioned brakes. The only problem is that come MOT-time you'll either have to replace the fuse or explain to the tester why hte ABS warning light is permanently on.
Even if the 605 has another fuse set up, it almost certainly has a dedicated fuse for the ABS system, it's just a case of identifying it and removing it (try looking in the owners manual for fuse allocations).
//NiSk

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 13 Jun 2002, 21:57

Hi NiSK,
Thanks for the suggestion. The last I checked with the Citroen dealers here I was told that the braking system on the 605 is different from that on the XM. The 605 (Svi model) has a modulator fitted with a safety relay instead of a servo and master pump near the left side firewall and a abs pump behind the left front wheel. Other 605 models seem to have a servo and master pump.
There are two fuse boxes – one under the glove compartment and the other in the engine compartment which comprise the fuses for the abs (40amp), horn relay (20amp), cooling fans (30amps X 2) and shunt. Have tried removing the abs fuse but whole braking system fails. Is this because there is no servo?
No problem if the abs light remains lit after any modifications – we don’t have MOT test in Malaysia! Any other suggestions?
Cheers,
hari

NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 21:11
x 1

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by NiSk » 14 Jun 2002, 18:08

When you say the whole braking system fails, what do you mean? Is there no braking effect at all? or is the brake pedal really heavy?
Another possibility is to disconnect the ABS computer from it's cable and see what happens. I'm not really into Pugs, but i have a 406 manual at home i could look at (it was the first manual Haynes gave out with the 2.1 litre diesel engine - same as my XM TD12).
//NiSk

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 15 Jun 2002, 15:51

whole brake system fails means all warning lights related to the abs and brakes (abs, hand brake & stop) on the dash comes on. brake pedal feels real heavy and i have mayby about 2% of brakes assistance only. takes a long distance for the car to come to a stop if the car is moving fast.
car is right now in the workshop to have the wiring checked. i'm hoping it's only a contact problem. could there be any earthing, wiring loom problems? does the abs pump need a constant high voltage to maintain pressure? should get the car back early next week. will let you know how things are developing. the 406 models with abs in M'sia uses a servo and master pump set up just like the 605 V6 models.
sure would be nice if i'm still back in uk. can send the car in straight to workshops that specialise in abs repair to get things sorted.
oh, by the way, i forgot to mention that when a diagnostic was done, the error shown was for power supply to abs pump and pump relay. however sometimes the fault is intermittent, sometimes permanent and at other times no fault is found. weird!
hari

NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 21:11
x 1

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by NiSk » 17 Jun 2002, 13:25

Welcome to the wonderful world of PSA - electrics!
But honestly, if you have had a error concerning voltage feed to the braking system pump unit, I would place great suspicion on the electrics around it. PSA relays have tendency to stop working after a few years - could be your problem?
//NiSk

paul141
Posts: 12
Joined: 18 Jun 2002, 05:16

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by paul141 » 18 Jun 2002, 05:30

have you had the offside front ABS wheel sensor inspected ?
Favorite (mybe nearside on lefthand drives)

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 19 Jun 2002, 10:59

NiSK,
PSA - electrics! Tell me about it. Early last year I thought I had problems with my modulator because the abs light was always lit on the dash. diagnotic showed solenoid fault. finally found out it was the safety relay on the modulator. peugeot doesn't sell relay separately so got one from Autolink, UK. expensive (sterling 148 ex p&p) but had no choice.
Now this! I spoke to the guys at autolink recently and they also told me the same things about electrics. they suggested that i check the wiring loom from the abs ecu to the relay and also from the shunt box in the engine bay to the pump.
car is currently still in workshop. it seems it could a pump problem. when all the light relating to the abs comes on a simple knock with a rubber mallet on the pump makes it all go out again. pump has been dismantelled yesterday should know someting later this evening. will keep you posted.
paul141,
thanks for the tip. but all sensors have been tested and cleaned.
rgds,
hari

NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 21:11
x 1

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by NiSk » 20 Jun 2002, 17:07

From what you describe about your ABS construction, it sounds rather like the all new dancing C5 hyraulic suspension system (high pressure electrically driven LMH pump) so I wonder how long the new PSA system solution will hold before it gets in the same state as your Pugs ABS system!
//NiSk

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 21 Jun 2002, 15:02

hi NiSK,
Don't realize that the C5 hyraulic suspension system uses LMH pump. Before long you might see C5 owners knocking their pumps with rubber mallets along the road side.
as for my problem, I have been told that the workshop has prepared a new wiring loom connecting the pump to the power supply, the pump is being serviced and the pumps motor wire coil is being 'rewired'. I'm keeping my figers crossed that this will finally solve my abs problem. will have more news tomorrow or Monday.
hari
p/s sorry about England's loss to Brazil, just saw the live telecast over here.

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 24 Jun 2002, 17:15

hi all,
service center called while i was out this evening to inform that the abs problem has been fixed. haven't got actual details as to what has been done. will checking on the car tomorrow and post more details.
hari

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 04 Jul 2002, 13:11

just writing to thank you guys NiSK & paul141 for your suggestions on my abs problem.
collected the car last saturday and the abs works like how it should. paid a bomb though (local currency about 1K - sterling 180). the abs pump was services with the amarture being recoiled and the wiring harness from pump to power supply was renewed.
hari

hariaran
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Dec 2001, 19:45

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by hariaran » 04 Jul 2002, 13:17

just writing to thank you guys NiSK & paul141 for your suggestions on my abs problem.
collected the car last saturday and the abs works like how it should. paid a bomb though (local currency about 1K - sterling 180). the abs pump was services with the amarture being recoiled and the wiring harness from pump to power supply was renewed.
hari

Capt.Fisher
Posts: 1
Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 13:26

disconnecting bendix abs

Post by Capt.Fisher » 13 Aug 2002, 13:40

Good for you, Hari!
Now it's my turn. I've been having ABSOLUTELY the same problem with my BENDIX since last autumn. I've tried everything - all in vain! The longest run between two ABS failures was 600 km. :-(
I've replaced the relay (USD 200), I have repaired the motor (twice), then replaced it with another one (second hand), not to mentioned that I've changed the fuse 100 times ...
Now, after the last failure, the tests seem to suggest again a relay problem - the electrician says the DC looses its way somewhere in there ;-) I really dont know what to do. The problem is there are no separate parts sold for this system. One of these days I will visit a second-hand shop where they think they "have something like this". If the outcome is poor I think I'll need your precious advices further on, after all you DID IT !
Thanks in advance