406 TD snapped cambelt now running rough

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 21 Jun 2004, 02:05

HELP!!,
I lent my S reg Peugeot 406 with air con to my brother and he managed to snap the cam belt,
I took the head off and found 2 bent valves so got a different head with good valves, skimmed the head, new valve stem oil seals, lapped valves in and fitted it to my car,
I then put a new cam belt on and to what i thought was the correct tension (with the locking pins in place) took them out and turned the engine over twice using a wrench on the crankshaft nut, I then put all the locking pins back to make sure the timing was still ok and it was so i started it up,
It ran really rough for about 20 minutes, sounding like it was running on only 3 cylinders, i held the revs at 2000 for a few mins and it sounded better then let it idle and revved it sharply to 2000 and it started making a loud ticking noise as though the cam belt had jumped a tooth, so i took it all apart again, took the cam shaft out so i could rotate the crankshaft to lock it in place again, reset the timing and put the timing belt on again (no teeth missing or damaged), double checked it after 2 rotations and it was fine, I decided this time to leave all the turbo plumbing and cambelt covers off to check it whilst it was running and it started but the check engine light came on straight away (it didnt the first time) and it is still running rough like it is only using 3 cylinders?
Can anyone think of anything i might have done wrong at all?, this is the first time i have done anything more than changing my own brake disks and pads!, and i found i needed to buy loads more tools than i had to get this done,
I checked all the woodruff keys were in place the second time and they were, I'm pretty certain i have got the cam belt as it should be but something still isnt right and i cant think of anything else to check, my haynes manual seems very vague on things this major

delboy · Post by **delboy** » 21 Jun 2004, 15:39

Are you sure you only bent 2 valves.If some others are only very slightly off there seats the engine will run rough. I would do a compression test.

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 21 Jun 2004, 18:33

Thanks for replying, but i actually bought a completely different head off a good running car so that i didnt have any damaged valves at all, i got it skimmed and lapped the valves myself and they were a perfect seal when i reassembled them, but not too sure if i have damaged these valves now when the cam belt jumped a tooth,
The engine is very lumpy and there is a small amount of black smoke comming out of the exhaust all the time when its running, It looks to me like one of the cylinders isnt firing but i dont know whether its lack of compression, daamaged valves or duff injector,
Is there any way i can test the injector myself that anyone knows about??, the pipes dont seem at all bendy enough to be able to fire the injector without it being in the head??

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 21 Jun 2004, 21:56

just checked my valve clearances and the specified clearances are 0.15 for inlet and 0.30 for exhaust, the measured values i got for these clearances are on average twice as much as they should be for the exhaust and the inlet clearances are around 3 times greater than they should be, the specified tolerance for my engine is +-0.08
Although the cylinder head and valves and springs were from a different working car, i had to use my old shims and buckets as none were supplied with the new head, I have never measured valve clearances on a car before so am not sure what sort of effect they would have when they are not correct
Is it possible that these clearances are causing my problems at all?, or does the valves being so far out not really cause small but continuous amounts of black smoke to be given out on idle?

Post by **philhoward** » 21 Jun 2004, 23:33

Diesels need such high compression that valve clearances make a big difference. The Vauxhall/Isuzu TD's won't even start when their clearances go just a little bit wide...
Get the clearances sorted; it'll probably be fine afterwards

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 22 Jun 2004, 03:14

Thanks for the reply,
It looks like i have to fit new shims to get to the right clearances as there is no adjustment that i can see on the valves at all,
I hope my local peugeot garage carries them!

Post by **philhoward** » 22 Jun 2004, 03:29

If they're shims, then there isn't any other adjustment.
If Peugeot can't get them , try a decent engine parts supplier/reconditioner - they should be able to get them and be cheaper.

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 22 Jun 2004, 16:32

Good idea!, i will pop down to the place that skimmed my head as they do engine rebuilds too so should be able to supply them,
I have been running my engine with the turbo plumbing disconnected as its a pain to keep putting it all back on, Is this ok?, when i rev the engine a HUGE amount of air blows upwards from the turbo, will this damage anything? or should i take the half hour each time i need to test the engine to remove or put back all the turbo plumbing?

Post by **philhoward** » 23 Jun 2004, 05:32

If you drove it, then you'ld probably goose the turbo by overspeeding it; revving on the drive (standstill) probably won't do any harm, as long as you're not testing the max speed setting on the pump...

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 24 Jun 2004, 15:04

ok, cheers, I wont drive it till it all back together,
I am having a really difficult time finding 3mm shims, i have ordered some used ones from a place it reading but they are charging me an arm and a leg for them £33 for 8 in postage, oh well, hopefully i will have it running soon

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 28 Jun 2004, 03:39

Finally got my shims and fitted them and it starts first time and runs but its putting out white smoke and smells like incomplete combustion to me, it stank the whole house out after running it for 20 minutes as i left the garage open!!, it also sounds like it is chugging a bit too at idle, but if i increase the revs to 1500 that goes away and it seems to be running fine except for the white smoke now, i checked the radiator water and it hasnt used any and it wasnt pressurising it when i reved it and there is no oil film or mayo in the bottle at all
Has anyone got any other ideas as to what might be wrong with this car now?, i'm run out of things to test for or do to it to get it running, its a pity really as it was a really nice car before and has only got 79k on the clock and i really wanted to start using it again properly

Post by **philhoward** » 28 Jun 2004, 04:02

Sounds like a sticky injector to me; alas there are diesel experts out there (and i'm not one of them..). Someone should be able to come back with a good reply.

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 28 Jun 2004, 05:21

Have you got the injector with the lift sensor in the same position as the original.
A sticking injector will cause hideousely advanced injection and cause a loud, disconcerting knock and possible black smoke, this condition will not give rise to white smoke.
White smoke is vapourised unburnt fuel, this comes about either by late injection or too low a temperature to burn it, low temperature comes about due to low cylinder compression.
Be carefull running the thing with the air intake exposed, anything that drops in will......well you know what it'll do.
If it all checks out, wrap some wrag around the injectors and crack each union in turn, if the smoke stops on disabling a particular injector, change it with one from another cylinder, if the same thing occurs on the same cylinder look for the cause of low pressure in that cylinder, if the problem moves with the injector to another cylinder there is a fault with the injector, but this is unlikely.
If the smoke continues regardless of which injector is taken off line then it looks like you have a general timing fault, retarded, check that all timing pegs can be engaged with ease (and without turning the engine backwards) including both of those on the injection pump.

Dave

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 30 Jun 2004, 05:45

Hmmm, some interesting things to check, many thanks, i didnt note where i removed the injector with the lift sensor from, is it the same for all engines?, i put it in no3 cylinder (1 being at the flywheel i think), not too sure if that is correct though, if someone that has a 1.9td engine could check for me that would be great, otherwise i will start moving it around to see if it gets any better, as regards the smoke colour, it was definatly very black smoke the first time i ran it, but the second time i thought it was whiter so said white smoke, i will double check this in the morning and see if i can free up the sticking injector, does a tap with a hammer usually sort them out whilst the engine is running?

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 30 Jun 2004, 06:06

Also, i forgot to mention that i decided to spray plusgas into the open injectors to see if it would unclog them and give a better spray pattern, i did this when reassembling the engine, i put the injectors into the block, sprayed the plusgas till each injector was full and then connected up the pipes from the pump,
Do you think i might have damaged the lift sensor on the important injector by doing this?, or would it have helped the spray pattern?,
I did it because it seems to be magic stuff when it comes to loosening bolts and i thought it would be the same for injector muck!