407 very intermittent surging

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MikeT
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by MikeT »

You average distance between last 5 regens is shown as 549km (~340miles).
Showing a soot loading of 43% then driving 200miles you find a regeneration has just occured (2%)
You then drove back 200miles(?) and soot loading shows as 47%
Yes, I still think that is normal.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by moizeau »

here's a screenshot, if this is the one you're after Elis...0 mbar? If not tell me where please.
1.jpg
Thanks Mike, I thought it may have depleted 'naturally' during the run.
The oil is at the max level and next service, according to the dash is in another 10000 miles, so either it uses nought, it was overfilled, or it's being replenished?

Forgot to mention this stationary with the engine on tickover, but doesn't change when revved.
Pete
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MikeT
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by MikeT »

moizeau wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 19:43 Forgot to mention this stationary with the engine on tickover, but doesn't change when revved.

Image


Yeah, that's not normal and as contradictory as the constant "Regeneration" status.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by EDC5 »

Right, the differential pressure should certainly change when the throttle blipped as the extra exhaust gas volume will find it more difficult to pass the restriction that the DPF presents; so that is a bit odd.

I'm not sure if it is a problem on our engines, but during DPF regeneration some diesel will enter the sump as a side effect of post-injection. I would be concerned that if the car was constantly regenerating then the oil could become too diluted with oil. Out of interest, does the oil appear to be roughly the correct thickness ont he end of the dipstick?
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by moizeau »

Never had anything but 10/40 semi, until this, so don't know, the viscosity looks good, very black, but if the changes are 20000, and it's done half that, then I'd expect it to be black. Doesn't smell, doesn't drip like water, looks like oil.
Mike 'Yeah, that's not normal and as contradictory as the constant "Regeneration" status.' please explain.
I just need a 350lc engine to rebuild now!, Much easier
Next check chaps?
Cheers again
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by MikeT »

moizeau wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 21:19 Mike 'Yeah, that's not normal and as contradictory as the constant "Regeneration" status.' please explain.
Next check chaps?
Cheers again


They're contradicting the other reported values, Pete
You should be seeing some pressure differential when the engine is revved, moreso if the reported soot loading is anywhere near accurate.
Regenerations shouldn't persist eternally or occur at idle with 100c exhaust temp or when soot loading is showing below a generous threshold (up to around 60-70% I think) etc.

What do ya mean "next"? You haven't told us the results of your first yet :lol:
Last edited by MikeT on 10 Sep 2018, 21:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by white exec »

Why is the oil being run all the way to 20,000 miles?
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Are we all sure that this means what it says - regeneration occurs normally on the road anyway, with assisted regeneration only when needed if the car is doing short journeys and not getting up to temp.

I’m wondering if this parameter just indicates that the system is doing its job normally and nothing more, as opposed to it reporting ‘Regeneration not Possible’ for example.

Has anybody checked their settings to compare?
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by EDC5 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 21:48 Has anybody checked their settings to compare?


You might have a point there, I have only provided screenshots of the Delphi system. We need to see the status of the Siemens ECU menu for a proper comparison.

That said, there is definitely something up with the differential pressure reading which will need some investigation.
white exec wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 21:46 Why is the oil being run all the way to 20,000 miles?
This is the published service interval believe it or not. Personally, I have set (using Lexia) a 10,000 mile interval but I always change the oil every summer as I've usually done less than 10k by that point.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I just thought it is worth exploring as I know that certain fault codes will prevent regeneration from occurring and even forced regeneration; so if one of these relevant engine ECU faults codes were to manifest itself hypothetically speaking, then this regeneration status may say something different so that you knew the process was halted - pending the cause. A downgrade mode if you like.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by white exec »

Really good move on the oil-change interval. I thought it was only Renault that had gone in for these marathon service intervals, which a good many mechanics baulk at, when it comes to their own cars!
A diesel's longevity is chiefly down to two things: sturdy build and regular oil changes. 10k is quite enough! :idea1:
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by moizeau »

Bloody 2nd post I've lost tonight, so not being ignorant people, sorry.
Mike, sorry I don't understand 'What do ya mean "next"? You haven't told us the results of your first yet :lol:' sorry I'm learning, I was asking what I could check next?
Chris, Done the g/box first as it had never been done, and as the oil thinks it can do 20, I thought 10 was safe, but is next on my list as 20 is too long.
Marc, regen occurs normally on the motorway, it's on A roads with slowing down when it gets the hiccups. The fix is yet to be be proven, possibly this week? Only says 'regen not possible' if the engine is off, as far as I've seen.
Thanks chaps, do 'virtual beers' exist if so so I owe you a few.
Thanks again
Pete
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by MikeT »

moizeau wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 22:34 Bloody 2nd post I've lost tonight, so not being ignorant people, sorry.
Mike, sorry I don't understand 'What do ya mean "next"? You haven't told us the results of your first yet :lol:' sorry I'm learning, I was asking what I could check next?


Just pulling your leg in good humour Pete, as your previous experiment remains inconclusive. :)

As for suggesting other things you might want to investigate... Personally, I'd be concerned why the press. diff. is showing a flat 0mbar when revved.
Are the take-off pipes fully connected and leak free? Is the PressDiff Sensor working properly? etc.

I'd also not want to use semi-synth in a modern turbo engine and as the DPF demands low-ash oil, are you even using the correct grade and spec?
As others have said, the 20,000mile service interval is too optimistic and you'll be doing your engine a world of good reducing that period substantially - especially if you use the correct oil.
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Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by EDC5 »

That's a very good point, all of the oils here conform to PSA B71 2290 which is the minimum standard Citroen recommend for DPF compatibility: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1493-citro ... e-oil.aspx

Personally I have uses Total INEO ECS (PSA Recommended) but have recently bought a load of Mobil 1 ESP as it was going cheap. They both seem great and are premium fully synthetic oils.
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moizeau
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AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 315

Re: 407 very intermittent surging

Post by moizeau »

No, I can assure you both that 10/40 semi has gone in, I was referring to the fact that I've only ever seen 10/40 semi as used in the 406 2.1td and the BX. I was only, this morning, looking at the b71 2290 rated oils. I'm having enough fun as it is at the moment without chucking another spanner in!. Just done another check, the car has stood all day and the downstream temperature of the cat is still reading 100c. I saw it up to just above 400 on the motorway, but never seen it lower. Is this a problem or is this just the lowest it shows. Just done a quick low rev check again and it did move to 27 and 35 mbar on the first 2 revs and after that stayed at zero no matter how often or I revved it.
....'Personally, I'd be concerned why the press. diff. is showing a flat 0mbar when revved.
Are the take-off pipes fully connected and leak free? Is the PressDiff Sensor working properly? etc.'
Please can you instruct me Mike on how to check, and where they are? I'm guessing the sensor is screwed in to the exhaust, I've not been under the car yet, apart from when I removed the bumper to change the headlights. What are 'take-off pipes?
Thanks for your patience
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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