Non starting 306 1.9D

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modmytop
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My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
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Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

Hi guys,
I have a problem with a 1997 (P reg) 306 1.9 normally aspirated diesel. It will not start. Turns over fine, but no sign of firing, no smoke of any kind from exhaust.
It started and ran without problem about a month ago. I used it one evening for a short trip. When I returned to it, it turned over but no signs of starting.
Initially I suspected the stop solenoid in the Bosch pump. Have since changed the solenoid, but still no start.
Changed fuel filter. Primed fuel system via primer grenade. Bubbles initially seen in clear pipe between filter and pump now gone.
Cracked off one injector pipe union (on pump). No fuel comes out when cranked.
Checked timing belt. It is turning pump.
Priming bulb doesn’t go rock hard, but there is pressure there after say 3 squeezes. Leave it a while and it takes another 3 till firm(ish).
There is a fuel pipe from the pump, that connects with the injector leak off pipe and then goes back to the tank.
If there was an air leak, this side of the pump, would it affect starting? If so, why, how?
I removed the return leak off pipe. With ignition off, fuel emerges from pump return when primer bulb pressed.
When cranked fuel also emerges from pump return.
In case low battery volts or poor earth was to blame, I measured volts on stop solenoid with respect to battery -ve. Got 9.7V when cranking starter. Think that would be enough to energize solenoid. Also got some fuel from open pump return when cranking.
If I clamped the pipe back to the tank and squeezed the primer, would the pressure build up enough to force fuel out of any air leak points?
Surely this points to a problem with the Bosch pump? Though I hear these rarely fail. Any ideas what I can try next?
Cheers Bri
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by white exec »

Check that the glow-plugs are getting power (measure on the GP rail), and that the GPs are all ok.
These engines do not like starting from cold without a GP pre-heat, even in warm weather.
GP relay (its connections) can become corroded. Easy to clean up.
Without working GPs, engine should struggle into firing up if jump-started from another battery/vehicle.....you may have to crank for 30secs for anything to happen.
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by EDC5 »

Is it possible to check the resistance of the stop solenoid, perhaps it has gone high resistance or open circuit?
modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

It is a new solenoid. I mis diagnosed the old solenoid. It is a push one, i.e the spring is in the pump not the solenoid. Hence when I tested it, it moved out to the full extent, but then further tests didn't show any movement. Looking on tinternet, advice was to remove solenoid shaft and spring. Obviously (now) this is for pull solenoid. I knackered old one trying to eliminate it. Solenoid moves when tested and even when cranking I think there is enough volts.

As for glow plugs, it is a fuel or lack of fuel issue. No smoke from exhaust etc.
BTW started easily last time it did, as glowplugs changed last winter.
What can I do to eliminate or prove pump?
Cheers
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by JohnD »

You said in your other post that you'd recently inherited the car. Can I ask you how fresh the diesel is in the tank?
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modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

Hi John. Had the car for a couple of years now. Fuel at most a couple of months old.
It started perfectly last time. Then no hint of starting 3 hours later. No fuuel from injector pipe when union released.
Unfortunately the stop solenoid is a push type. Meaning i cant simply remove plunger and spring as this would leave it in off position.
modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

Latest things I've tried:
Removed leak off pipe where it connects to pump outlet (pipe then goes back to tank).
Pressing primer bulb with ignition off, fuel emerges from pump return (puzzled by this as solenoid not energised???).
Cranking engine more fuel emerges. Think this confirms pump is actually being turned by timing belt.
Loosening off injector pipe union, still no fuel when cranked.
Would this point to a pump failure?
Is there anything else I can try other than a different pump?
modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

I have received an interesting comment from another forum i posted same problem to. Suggestion is that it was not the stop solenoid i changed. The actual stop solenoid being behind armour. Will update after some research. Can anyone confirm if this pump Bosch part 0 460 484 132 has armoured stop solenoid? What is the purpose of the other push solenoid?
Back of pump
Back of pump
This is back of pump.
The pump
The pump
The solenoid i changed is at bottom of pump.
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by xantia_v6 »

Take a look at http://eastment.net/boschpump1.htm which is Jim's stripdown of an armoured pump. I think that pumps were only armoured when fitted to a car with an immobiliser (otherwise there is little to protect).
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by MikeT »

modmytop wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 19:54 I have received an interesting comment from another forum i posted same problem to. Suggestion is that it was not the stop solenoid i changed. The actual stop solenoid being behind armour. Will update after some research. Can anyone confirm if this pump Bosch part 0 460 484 132 has armoured stop solenoid? What is the purpose of the other push solenoid? DSC_4487.JPG
This is back of pump.
DSC_4363.JPG
The solenoid i changed is at bottom of pump.

Image
Image
The first picture shows the armour protecting the stop solenoid, is it yours?
The solenoid in the second picture affects the injection timing.
modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

Thanks guys. So it was armoured all along! Is there anything I can check re the wiring to the immobliser? Presume there is a chip in the key, which is read by ignition barrel pick up? Is there anything else to check before tackling armour?
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by MikeT »

Is there a dash warning light for the immobiliser? If the system cannot authorise the key (transponder), IIRC it should remain lit after ignition on.
modmytop
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 16:00
Location: Portsmouth
My Cars: 306 P reg, 1.9D.
Berlingo Multispace 2.0HDi, 03 reg
x 4

Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by modmytop »

No dashboard light i remember seeing
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by xantia_v6 »

I think that we are shooting in the dark without knowing which type of immobiliser is fitted. As far as I know itcould be one of:
  • no immobiliser (stop solenoid just operated by ignition switch)
  • immobiliser button on the steering cowl, near ignition switch
  • keypad immobiliser
  • coded chip in ignition key
If you don't know, then posting you VIN may allow someone to check.
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Re: Non starting 306 1.9D

Post by JohnD »

modmytop wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 12:41
Unfortunately the stop solenoid is a push type.


Haynes says "If the solenoid has failed the engine will not run. A temporary repair may be made by removing it and taking out the plunger and spring. Tape up the wire so it cannot touch earth. The engine will now run but will have to be stopped manually."

That is for both Bosch and Lucas pumps. Looks as tho it's easier to do on the Lucas.
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