307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

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tmead
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307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by tmead »

I'm after some help with injectors. The car is running really badly, and there is a loud knocking in time with the engine speed - sounds like its coming from the top end.
I've just plugged in PP and the injector corrections are not in line. After a recent top end strip and rebuild injector 4 was a few percent higher, but now its way out of line. They read approx
injector 1 : 60%
injector 2 : 60%
injector 3 : 80%
injector 4 : 140%

I'm assuming that the ECU is desperately trying to adjust the fuelling of 4, and when it can't its tweaking the others in the opposite direction. That probably also explains the massive lack of power.

I was expecting 3 to be unhappy, as I had to unscrew the top of it to fit the extract tool to pull it out. I tried to be as clean as possible, but its wouldnt have surprised me to find some small amount of debris in there. Number 4 popped out with a little wriggle and no major hassle.

Next step is to grab some random s/h ones off ebay and replace I guess. I didnt note any numbers on them to code in, but will take a look when the replacement is here. If I start the coding in process on PP will I also need the numbers off the others that have not been changed ? I've never ventured into that area of PP before !
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by Peter.N. »

Sounds as though injector 4 is dropping semi neat diesel into the cylinder, I would suspect that is the problem.

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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by tmead »

That was what I feared. It didn't get driven too far like that, so should be fine with an oil change as well. I suspect some has ended up down below. That's a bugger, as I changed the oil when I did the exhaust cam less than 1000 miles ago !
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by EDC5 »

do you have the Siemens or Delphi injection system? Couldn't you just buy a cheap'un off eBay and swap them over?
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by tmead »

Its Siemens. A random ebay special that should be a matching part number (looks like a match at least !) has just arrived..... I'll clean it up as well as I can and pop it in with a new copper washer tonight.
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by EDC5 »

tmead wrote: 01 Jun 2018, 09:55 Its Siemens. A random ebay special that should be a matching part number (looks like a match at least !) has just arrived..... I'll clean it up as well as I can and pop it in with a new copper washer tonight.


Excellent, lets see if it works.

Do you have to code the injectors to the ECU on this engine?
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This is what I have for your VIN and the Siemens system:

Programming the new diesel injectors
307 Injector Class.PNG
Marking of the class ( as "e")Correspondance
4Minimum
5Nominal
6Maximum
Notes:
  • Diesel injector carriers marked according to injection duct diameter (diesel fuel flow) (class 4, 5 or 6 reference).
  • CAUTION - Fitting a diesel injector of a different class causes the particle filtration system to malfunction.
  • N.B. It is possible to fit 4 diesel injector-carriers of a different class, provided their new class is configured into the injection ECU.
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by EDC5 »

Are there any advantages to running a set of 4's over 6's or is it just a result of manufacturing 'binning' ?
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's the manufacturing tolerances I believe Elis - some Siemens / VDO and a few of the Bosch earlier systems used a single character to code them - and these have to be the same across the lot of the injectors - but the class can be different as long as the ECU is told about it. Many other systems use the unique injector coding sequence and these have to be entered for each one. I suppose it's a bit like getting the right batch number when you need an extra roll of wallpaper or it will have a slightly different colour for want of a better analogy.
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by EDC5 »

Ok, very interesting. I remember reading some time ago on a forum when someone was moaning that you can't even change an injector on a modern car without a computer; as if it was done deliberately to frustrate the DIY mechanic. Turns out there is a good reason for it.
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by tmead »

Well this just goes to show how the computer can completely misdirect. The fault didn't go away when I swapped out injector 4. That was a shame, because it only took about 20 mins. Still clattering and running badly.
Timing was checked and found right with the pins.
I popped the top off and saw that one of the (new) exhaust cam lobes was badly scored. A little more investigation showed this
20180602_115456.jpg
Looks like I made a bad choice to put a new cam in a month ago, should have swapped the engine. That exhaust valve has broken somewhere down inside to be standing up that high. I cant find the collets or the broken off ball from the top of the tappet anywhere around up top.
Now have to choose: replacement car or replacement engine. It's done 190k, so not a bad score really.
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Free 307sw HDi 2.0 136 (non runner) to a good home !

Post by tmead »

Its got to go. I'm getting a load of earache about it and cant summon the energy to dig in to replace the engine now.
Also, my son will be 17 in a couple of months, and there's no way we would be able to afford to insure him to drive it while he learns or after! I think I'll look for a C1, as they seem to be a bit more affordable than the 107, but basically the same car.
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by EDC5 »

That is disappointing to hear. Especially considering the journey you've been on with the repair.

As you say, 190k isn't a bad run!
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by mihkel »

Hey!

I've got a 2010 2.0 HDI 100kW Citroen C5 with the same engine and I'm suspicious about the injectors. Can anyone confirm? The car has done 460k km+ and I've got no info on the history of repairs.

#1 injector correction at idle -56%
#2 injector correction at idle 103%
#3 injector correction at idle 2%
#4 injector correction at idle -49%
To me it seems that only injector no 2 works OK.

I've got floating idle, black smoke at acceleration and loud injection noise under acceleration in lower rpms for a second.

Also the rail pressure fluctuates.

Image
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Re: 307 2.0 Hdi RHR 136 Injectors

Post by mihkel »

Gave it another go with an Autocom tester (Diagbox is kind of slow). Had the engine speed on the screen as well. Fluctuations are really bad. On the positive side the numbers are better while driving.

Can anyone confirm that the injector code is correct? 1980S3 (2010 2.0 HDI 100kW Citroen C5 RHR / DW10BTED4

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