405 1.8TD Head Gasket replacement
Moderator: RichardW
405 1.8TD Head Gasket replacement
Hi there I am new!!
My Head Gasket has just gone on my 1993 405 1.8TD, I recently changed the diesel ijection pump as that failed on its cam belt drive shaft, the bearing and seal was forced out the pump making diesel squirt down the block (but not in contact with the cam belt)
Looking at the job, it done look too hard, but the cam belt and tensioner looks tricky due to the lack of space - is it difficult to do? I can sort most problems out myself and know how to work a good tool kit!
Will I have to have the head skimmed?
Can I reuse the head bolts?
The 'Haynes' section on removing and refitting the head is a little poor in my point of view, are there any items I really need to look out for here to get the job done right and the engine to run good again once started?
The car is a 1.8 GLTD, 1993, no rust anywhere and (did) drive s like a dream - the first diesel i have owned (but not driven) and I was really happy with it.
Any advice would be more than welcome, I REFUSE to pay a garage to get this sorted!!
Many thanks
red161
My Head Gasket has just gone on my 1993 405 1.8TD, I recently changed the diesel ijection pump as that failed on its cam belt drive shaft, the bearing and seal was forced out the pump making diesel squirt down the block (but not in contact with the cam belt)
Looking at the job, it done look too hard, but the cam belt and tensioner looks tricky due to the lack of space - is it difficult to do? I can sort most problems out myself and know how to work a good tool kit!
Will I have to have the head skimmed?
Can I reuse the head bolts?
The 'Haynes' section on removing and refitting the head is a little poor in my point of view, are there any items I really need to look out for here to get the job done right and the engine to run good again once started?
The car is a 1.8 GLTD, 1993, no rust anywhere and (did) drive s like a dream - the first diesel i have owned (but not driven) and I was really happy with it.
Any advice would be more than welcome, I REFUSE to pay a garage to get this sorted!!
Many thanks
red161
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I have done this on a BX TD - which is the more or less the same!
Head gasket changes were discussed on the Citroen forum a short while ago, and the consensus was that if it had to be done again it would be easier to take the engine out first! Getting the turbo pipes on and off is nigh on impossible, and getting the turbo out and back in past the block is very difficult. Haynes might allege that you can do it by taking the manifolds off first, but there would have been no way I could have got the inlet manifold off with the head on.
Did you not take the cambelt off to do the injection pump? The tensioner is one of the easier parts of the job....!
You can check the head for flatness when you've got it off, but it's probably good insurance to get it skimmed.
You might be able to reuse the head bolts, but given the amount of work and the cost of a new set I wouldn't bother.
It's perfectly possible for an experienced DIYer (ie me), but it might take some time (4 weeks to do my BX as I had to keep going and getting new tools!)
Head gasket changes were discussed on the Citroen forum a short while ago, and the consensus was that if it had to be done again it would be easier to take the engine out first! Getting the turbo pipes on and off is nigh on impossible, and getting the turbo out and back in past the block is very difficult. Haynes might allege that you can do it by taking the manifolds off first, but there would have been no way I could have got the inlet manifold off with the head on.
Did you not take the cambelt off to do the injection pump? The tensioner is one of the easier parts of the job....!
You can check the head for flatness when you've got it off, but it's probably good insurance to get it skimmed.
You might be able to reuse the head bolts, but given the amount of work and the cost of a new set I wouldn't bother.
It's perfectly possible for an experienced DIYer (ie me), but it might take some time (4 weeks to do my BX as I had to keep going and getting new tools!)
Thanks for that reply
The way I did the pump was to hold the pulley in place ising the 2 8mm bolts, udo the pulley bolts and you can pull the pump out without removing the belt, easy!
The haynes says that after removing the inlet manifold, you can undo the turbo/exhaust and leave it loose at the back still connected to the exhaust pipe - well thats what it says anyway!!
The car didnt overheat before the gasket went, the fans come on ok and the temp rarely went over 'normal'.
I still want to get this job done myself, would three days be a realistic time scale providing the head was flat?
While the head is off I plan to replace the speedometer cable, I am presuming it will be easier to access where it goes through the bulkhead with the head off....
red161
The way I did the pump was to hold the pulley in place ising the 2 8mm bolts, udo the pulley bolts and you can pull the pump out without removing the belt, easy!
The haynes says that after removing the inlet manifold, you can undo the turbo/exhaust and leave it loose at the back still connected to the exhaust pipe - well thats what it says anyway!!
The car didnt overheat before the gasket went, the fans come on ok and the temp rarely went over 'normal'.
I still want to get this job done myself, would three days be a realistic time scale providing the head was flat?
While the head is off I plan to replace the speedometer cable, I am presuming it will be easier to access where it goes through the bulkhead with the head off....
red161
Hi,
I wouldnt ever contemplate doing an alloy head w/o skimming it.. if it hasnt twisted due to overheating , it may through the slackening process. Too, you will have a much nicer surface to work with and be able to sleep at night. Same gooes for the head bolts - its too much work to cut corners like that - unless you really love doing them!!!
If youve been competent enough to do the inj. pump I think youlle manage the head with some extra patience.. Good tip for doing the inj pump by the way! I like that !!- though of course whilst dong any job like this you need to weigh up whether or ney the belt is due for a change!
Goood luck.. but trust me - dont cut corners.. youlle pay int end.
Ps.. why do you "refuse" to pay a garage to do it??
Mike
I wouldnt ever contemplate doing an alloy head w/o skimming it.. if it hasnt twisted due to overheating , it may through the slackening process. Too, you will have a much nicer surface to work with and be able to sleep at night. Same gooes for the head bolts - its too much work to cut corners like that - unless you really love doing them!!!
If youve been competent enough to do the inj. pump I think youlle manage the head with some extra patience.. Good tip for doing the inj pump by the way! I like that !!- though of course whilst dong any job like this you need to weigh up whether or ney the belt is due for a change!
Goood luck.. but trust me - dont cut corners.. youlle pay int end.
Ps.. why do you "refuse" to pay a garage to do it??
Mike
Hiya mg
I refuse to pay a garage because A), they willprobaly say the car isnt worth fixing, and B), they charge far too much for the work to be done.
I took my car to a diesel specialist when the pump went, they reckoned on a new pump at £350, a new turbo at £200, plus other bits n bobs with labour was around £1000! yeah right!! there is nothing wrong with turbo or anything else, it cost me £25 for the report though, still a ri off I think.
Do I have to completely strip the head to have it skimmed? and do i have to buy a non standard head gasket? tips please!!
Keep your advice coming please....
red161
I refuse to pay a garage because A), they willprobaly say the car isnt worth fixing, and B), they charge far too much for the work to be done.
I took my car to a diesel specialist when the pump went, they reckoned on a new pump at £350, a new turbo at £200, plus other bits n bobs with labour was around £1000! yeah right!! there is nothing wrong with turbo or anything else, it cost me £25 for the report though, still a ri off I think.
Do I have to completely strip the head to have it skimmed? and do i have to buy a non standard head gasket? tips please!!
Keep your advice coming please....
red161
The speedo cable is a total pig to do but having the head off can only help. It's not too hard except getting the grommet back in place where it passes through the bulkhead. As I recall it has two rubber "ears" that you need to pull, preferably simultaneously.
I think you'd have to buy a head gasket that was thicker by the amount you had skimmed, additionally the gasket is matched to the protrusion of the pistons in the block. These head gaskets will not last any time at all if you give them any excuse. You must replace the bolts and use a decent quality gasket.
It is a very good time to grind the valves in and check the clearances, for which you will have the head stripped anyway, identify all the parts and send the head for skimming while it's down.
Do you race at Buxton?
I think you'd have to buy a head gasket that was thicker by the amount you had skimmed, additionally the gasket is matched to the protrusion of the pistons in the block. These head gaskets will not last any time at all if you give them any excuse. You must replace the bolts and use a decent quality gasket.
It is a very good time to grind the valves in and check the clearances, for which you will have the head stripped anyway, identify all the parts and send the head for skimming while it's down.
Do you race at Buxton?
Aaarrgghhh!!! This afternoon I made a start on it, after removing the intercooler and deciding to remove the inlet next.. how the hell am i supposed to reach the inlet bolts?? they dont make it easy for you do peugeot!!
I removed the top r/h side engine mount and can pull the engine forward a little, it was starting to go dark by then so ill come back to it on Friday, the bolts look like allen key heads?
Regarding Buxton - yes I do race there - RookiRod 161 - www.rookirod161.fsnet.co.uk worth a look!!
161red
I removed the top r/h side engine mount and can pull the engine forward a little, it was starting to go dark by then so ill come back to it on Friday, the bolts look like allen key heads?
Regarding Buxton - yes I do race there - RookiRod 161 - www.rookirod161.fsnet.co.uk worth a look!!
161red
After looking out the window for half hour I went outside and opened the bonnet to look at the inlet manifold bolts, I noticed that the bonnet stay has an extra hole further down the bonnet so it opens almost vertical, handy that...
No work done, just didnt have the enthusiasm today, I will get out there early one morning soon and try to get a good amount of stripping down done - although I am not really looking forward to it to be honest!
I think that after removal of the inlet manifold the exhaust manifold will be easier as there might be more room, that just needs undoing and moving backwards - I tell you what it dont do your back much good working on a 405 TD engine!!
Keep your suggestions coming, much appreciated!!.......
161red
No work done, just didnt have the enthusiasm today, I will get out there early one morning soon and try to get a good amount of stripping down done - although I am not really looking forward to it to be honest!
I think that after removal of the inlet manifold the exhaust manifold will be easier as there might be more room, that just needs undoing and moving backwards - I tell you what it dont do your back much good working on a 405 TD engine!!
Keep your suggestions coming, much appreciated!!.......
161red
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Go for the inlet manifold bolt in the centre first. This is the one with no access (For the BX, Haynes recommends cutting down an allen key). The manifold around this bolt is slotted, so it only needs slackening. If you can't shift this one you will not get the manifold off (on my BX I had to take this one out with a pair of stilsons when I had the head on the bench - note that on the BX you need to remove the manifold once the head is off as there is not enough room to change the head bolts without doing so!), so try it first, and if no go, you won't waste hours on the other bolts!
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I used to go and watch the banger racing there in my youth it was called High Edge raceway then, used to go up the bankside with the Landrover opposit the racetrack, brilliant view of it all, untill they dug a bloody great trench to stop us going up the bank.
Went up one sunday and it was foggy there, couldn't see buggerall, could only hear'em, so we bit the bullet and paid to get in, and still couldn't see the buggers[:I]
Dave
Went up one sunday and it was foggy there, couldn't see buggerall, could only hear'em, so we bit the bullet and paid to get in, and still couldn't see the buggers[:I]
Dave
to RichardW,
Today I managed to remove 4 of the inlet bolts, buggers they are! could you advise on a socket size for the bolt under the centre inlet tract like you mention? That would be a great help. I removed the 4 bolts today and the job just got annoying cos there wasnt enough room to even feel the other bolts - so I painted the roof of my race car instead!!
to Dave Burns
Yes, it did used to be called 'High Edge', if you go onto the 'about us' page of the site ( www.buxtonraceway.com ) there is a link to some old pics there. The trench you talk about was dug on the back straight about halfway, it was dug as foundations to a new stand but planning permission was never granted, the hole is filled in and on racedays is part of the back straight trackside parking. In 1998 the raceway became 'Buxton Raceway' under its current promoter, far, far better than it used to be - hope you like the site as I did it!!
red161
Today I managed to remove 4 of the inlet bolts, buggers they are! could you advise on a socket size for the bolt under the centre inlet tract like you mention? That would be a great help. I removed the 4 bolts today and the job just got annoying cos there wasnt enough room to even feel the other bolts - so I painted the roof of my race car instead!!
to Dave Burns
Yes, it did used to be called 'High Edge', if you go onto the 'about us' page of the site ( www.buxtonraceway.com ) there is a link to some old pics there. The trench you talk about was dug on the back straight about halfway, it was dug as foundations to a new stand but planning permission was never granted, the hole is filled in and on racedays is part of the back straight trackside parking. In 1998 the raceway became 'Buxton Raceway' under its current promoter, far, far better than it used to be - hope you like the site as I did it!!
red161
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No mate different trench, the one I speak of was dug along the lefthand side of the the approach road, and not actually on the grounds of the raceway.
If you look at the picture of the facility taken by Nick Garbett, I think he would have taken that from the very highest rocks on the hillside, (they used to hang glide from them when we were there) we used to be a good bit below that with the landy, but still plenty high enough to see the whole shebang and not too far off so that you couldn't see what was going off.
Dave
If you look at the picture of the facility taken by Nick Garbett, I think he would have taken that from the very highest rocks on the hillside, (they used to hang glide from them when we were there) we used to be a good bit below that with the landy, but still plenty high enough to see the whole shebang and not too far off so that you couldn't see what was going off.
Dave
Dave
In that case dunno which trench you mean!!
The pic you refer to was taken at 1000 feet in a helicpter, the closest that Nick could get as the area to the right is a no fly zone as its a Health and Safety testing area and labs, dunno why a no fly zone!!!!
This isnt helping me get my 405 fixed!! lol, great talking about things I like though!!
HELP ME FIX MY PUG!!!!!
161
In that case dunno which trench you mean!!
The pic you refer to was taken at 1000 feet in a helicpter, the closest that Nick could get as the area to the right is a no fly zone as its a Health and Safety testing area and labs, dunno why a no fly zone!!!!
This isnt helping me get my 405 fixed!! lol, great talking about things I like though!!
HELP ME FIX MY PUG!!!!!
161