Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote:Chris, you're right, some modern diesels sounding like right old bags of spanners.. My neighbour has a Vauxhall Stigma and that sounds like an old Fordson tractor! Then there's a toy pickup (a Fraud I think) that sounds like it's about to fall to bits as does my neighbours Mitsubishi L200 pickup...
white exec wrote:Always wondered about a 2.1 in something like a BX, ZX or 306...
It's been done, several BX 2.1TDs exist... Also I know of a hybrid with a 2.1TD 12v head sitting on a 1.9TD block...
It just about fits into a 205 too in a vague fashion. The 8v 2.0 HDi (the nice earlier one) is a better choice though for this conversion into a 205 at least.
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, the 8V Hdi is a little more compact about the head and manifolds Andy.. I guess when you try to put a 2.1TD in a 205 the master cylinder is a problem; it always was with the 16v Mi16 conversion...
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote:Yes, the 8V Hdi is a little more compact about the head and manifolds Andy.. I guess when you try to put a 2.1TD in a 205 the master cylinder is a problem; it always was with the 16v Mi16 conversion...
That does explain why most of the 2.1 'conversions' seem to be LHD.

Completely off topic but this is also why I suspect that the MK2 Micra diesel about 1996 to 2000 (which used the Saxo/106 TUD5 unit, this is why I mention it here as its a PSA engine) was only ever available in LHD form, due to the position of the relatively large inlet manifold and the brake servo. It won't fit in a RHD one with some butchering apparently.
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

Or the use of a remote servo ;) They seemed to fall out of fashion but was the answer to such problems...
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Wow thanks for all the replies, some interesting info about the conversions as I was pondering if the 2.1 would have gone in a ZX last night.

Cheers for the advice about the recirc flap, will have a look later although it doesn't bother me too much at the moment, it'd be nice to have a working one.

Will also have a more thorough look round for the clutch system if the rain ever stops, although it's also "liveable" as it is & I like a low bite point.
Missus needs computer back now so got to go, but thanks again for all the replies it's appreciated as ever. :)
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by Paul-R »

CitroJim wrote:Or the use of a remote servo ;) They seemed to fall out of fashion but was the answer to such problems...
More or less at the same time as dual circuit brakes came in. You only need one mechanical servo between the pedal and master cylinder as against two hydraulic servos for each circuit. A considerable saving that the beancounters would froth with excitement about.

Having said that the North American version of the MGC had two hydraulic Girling servos to go in each circuit. No doubt that was because that was cheaper than the re-engineering (and possibly retesting and re-homologation) necessary to put a servo master cylinder in to such a low production model. BL did manage to do it for the MGB though. From about 1975 on they they were fitted with Lockheed servo assisted dual circuit master cylinders.
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

Thanks for that Paul :D Most interesting and explains why generally remote servos only seen on old cars...

Seeing one at the Classic Car Show reminded me of their existence...
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Well I've had a bit of a look round in the scuttle area today and located the clutch m/c so that's one thing more I know about the car haha, also on the other side I whipped the pollen filter out and had a pull at the recirc. flap and it seems to be working just that it's lost any idea of whether it is open or closed so the motor constantly runs trying to move it to whatever position is selected. Will likely be adopting XUDkeenamateur's advice and disconnecting the motor if it starts to bother me.

Going to have a gander round the net to see if I can find fuse & relay location/function diagram as there's a few empty spaces in the underbonnet box (F1, 2, 6, 8 & 11 are empty, and there's 2 empty relay sockets too, I think they were R3 and either 7 or 1). Of course I wouldn't be averse to a photo of the appropriate page of the handbook if anybody has one to hand but hopefully there'll be something already out there in the ether...

Oh and on replacing a bulb in the dash I was reminded very much of our XM when the outside temperature gauge lit up only to be displaying 60c... it definitely wasn't that warm out today. Since then it's hovered around between 52-60c generally seeming to work backwards i.e. goes up as it cools. I'm guessing it's a similar fix there with a thermistor in the left mirror to be replaced? or maybe just clean plug contacts first...


Remote servos, only time I've seen one in person was on a Volvo Amazon I tuned the carbs on for a friend of a friend... The way they function is still a mystery to me, do they have a slave cylinder operating a second master or something?
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'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Not sure if I found the right diagram but it seems to fit in that all but one of my empty spaces is listed as "free". Strangely though F1 seems to refer to "injection control unit (petrol & diesel)"...

This is strange as it's the only one to specify 5a fuses and there are a couple of those in a cubby hole in the dash. What exactly does the injection control unit do then, as the car starts and runs well aside from not liking the first cold start of the day which I put down to a couple of glow plugs...
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

I have a problem with the outside temperature display on Gabriel... It's always between 31 and 34c outside.... Wish it was!!!

Yes, 2.1TDs do like good glowplugs... Go for BERU ones...
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh I don't know about 34c, 20 is about the most I can cope with AND do a reasonable amount of work as well! 206 said 3c and "ICE ALERT" this morning whereas 406 reckons on a balmy 61! I will look to take your advice on the plugs Jim as you may remember we had some "fun" with NGK items in the ZX a couple of years back before settling on Bosch for the 1.9...
On initial inspection the glow plugs do actually look less than a couple of years old but could well have just retained their shine under the inevitable coating of greasy spooge that hovers around any good aging XU motor lol

Popped a 5a fuse in the F1 position a few minutes ago and nothing seems to have changed with the way the car runs, and it hasn't blown so I'm a bit lost on that one. maybe it is really redundant?

Heated rear window doesn't work I noticed too, button doesn't light but there is a barely audible click from deep within the dash when it's pressed so not sure what the issue is here yet. multimeter needs finding before I go any further with electrics though, could use a heated window in this weather.
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'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

You can never tell the condition of glowplugs by looking at them... They are easy to swap if you know the trick - that trick is to pop of the top half of the inlet manifold. It's easy, just disconnect the EGR tube and undo a few bolts and off it comes. Access is then lovely and so much better than the 1.9TD :D

The 2.1TD in my experience does not like NGK Glowplugs...

The 406 will have an EPIC Injection Pump and this is ECU controlled. If the fuse supplying it had popped the car would not run so I expect your fuse is one specific to the petrol versions only...

Heated Rear window problem may be similar to the same issue in the early Xantias which is caused by duff contacts on the ignition switch... Does the heater blower work OK?
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'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Heater blower works fine yes, ignition switch does feel a bit on the "smooth" side with not much in the way of detents but everything seems to work bar the HRW yes and no intermittent ABS or airbag lights to suggest anything in the way of loose contacts so I'll look for power at the button when the multimeter appears again :)

That was my thoughts on the fuse as well, maybe a misprint in the handbook I saw the scan of...

That's a great tip on replacing the glowplugs as well thanks Jim, I have to say they did look better than the 1.9 for access even with the mani' in place but removing the top half will be a great excuse to clean out any EGR related deposits there and have a look at the injectors/leak offs and maybe consider replacing the rocker gasket if it can be got at too.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
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'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
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Re: Back at it again, 406 2.1DT this time :)

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, always have a good look at the leakoffs as they do need to be good and the blind (blanking) end-cap on the end of No.1 injector has a nasty habit of splitting... I never use the blanking caps now... I take a bit of leakoff pipe and bend it double and tie a couple of cable ties around it.

You'll find the inlet manifold very oily but that's normal - it's oil condensate via the crankcase PCV breather system and helps keep the turbo lubricated ;)
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