206 brake light switch... why???

[ekjdm14]

Well the little 206 just provided some "entertainment" lol, the better half was taking one of the boys to stay at his nana's & as they left I noticed the brake lights were on permanently so I called them back.

No problem, thinks I, it'll just be the switch has been dislodged by my big clodhoppers when I moved the car a couple of days back. So I dive under the dash to sort the problem and no surprise, there's the clutch switch sat on it's lonesome next to the empty hole for the brake light switch. Only problem is, there's no dangling wires/switches or indeed any evidence of a switch ever having been present in the brake pedal area.

Next logical thought, did they for some reason use a pressure based switch? nothing on the brake lines away from the master cyl so dead end there... Few minutes head scratching and it comes to me, the master cyl for the brakes is on the nearside and must be operated by a cross shaft of some sort so I looked under the PASSENGER footwell and lo & behold, there's the little bugger swinging away in the breeze.

Why on earth would PSA bother going to all the trouble of making a cross shaft assembly, relocating the clutch master and it's switch/wiring to make RHD cars, even provide a hole for the brake switch in the RHD pedal boxes yet LEAVE the brake light switch on the left? surely it's not to do with the 2p's worth of wire it'd take to relocate the thing? They've all been on the actual pedal box on every other car I've looked at even pugs and cits so why the difference with the 206?

[ekjdm14]

Well further to that post, which I actually wrote about 3 1/2 hrs ago but never got a chance to hit "post", some more drama developed with the 206. And once again it was brake related, what are the chances?

After sorting the brake light switch & sending them on their way, 5mins later I get a phone call from a tearful Emma "something's happened to the car, it stopped on its own and it smells of burning now, come quickly!" so I grabbed our youngest off his computer, made sure we had an extinguisher and raced to the scene of the crime.

Turns out that, at first glance, the rear brake shoes on the offside have delaminated/fallen apart and jammed up inside the drum causing the car to effectively brake itself to a stop as they approached a junction. A kind passer by had already managed to rock the brake free and recover the car to the kerb by the time we arrived so it was just a case of limping the sick pug half a mile home and resuming the journey in the trusty/rusty Escort.

How strange though that this second issue cropped up so soon after a minor glitch with the brake lights!

Will hopefully get a chance to pull the hub off tomorrow for a closer look at the damage, the rear beam bearings are shot anyway so I may yet try and convince the "accountant" that now would be as good a time as any to source a disc braked GTi beam to refurbish, polybushes/new brakes & bearings all round plus an upgrade to discs and stiffer torsion bars was always in my mind as the car's a keeper. Just not quite this soon lol

[Peter.N.]

That's the sort of thing that usually happens just as you are about to go away on holiday - or at least it does to me.

Peter

[Oldpug]

Your lucky with one thing, its freed its self. Normally the shoe lining jams the hub solid making it near impossible to remove the drum.Little Pugs and Citroens are notorious for this.
Any way if you are considering changing the complete axle to discs you wont have to bother with it.As far as I know its a simple swop over job,the only item that may need altering would be the metal brake pipes?? you will need different h/brake cables of course.

[spider]

The lights staying on is quite common, I used to see it a lot. Usual cause was passenger kicking it out of place. Easily fixed. It should really of had a small plastic cover over it.

For RHD 206's the switch on the left/passenger side is the brake light switch as you've found. The switch on the brake pedal (if you have one) is for the ECU usually...

Regarding the drums, yes they can stick on. I made a tool to assist with their removal (without ripping the shoes clean off) , I still ahve it, its a modified driveshaft pusher.

[ekjdm14]

The saga gains an extra twist, popped the offside drum off first thing this morning to find... nearly new Delphi shoes, complete with nice shiny springs and fitting kit. (I already had the impression this car was well cared for, hence my advice to Mrs '14 to keep hold of it.)

Everything seems free and reasonably clean under that side, so I'll just be cleaning up and dabbing a bit of brake lube between the backplate/shoes. Anyway I've just come in to cool off a bit and drink coffee then will attack the nearside.

For what its worth, I have my suspicions about the handbrake cable that side. on backing the adjuster off under the centre trim it appears the cables slackened off unevenly. Also the nearside cable inner seems a lot thicker than the offside. Any reason this would be the case, or is it likely one of the cables has been replaced?

Incidentally, Peter, this breakdown has happened the very last day of the pug being on the road before an enforced lay-up due to ridiculous insurance renewal prices (not to mention giving myself ample time to do a thorough service/clutch change and possibly polybushing the front wishbones) so it's my guess that the poor little thing is sulking at the prospect of NOT being our conveyance to Scotland in August!

Update after coffee and more sweating lol.

[ekjdm14]

Strange, both sides stripped and the only obvious issues were a *very* slightly weeping N/S wheel cylinder and whoever replaced the shoes last seems to have had a problem with the auto adjuster fouling a spring (the new top spring on the offside is about 3/4" diameter whereas the old one they re-used on the nearside is only about 1/4-3/8"ish and looks very close to the adjuster barrel.

So far, I'm struggling to make my case for the upgraded back axle unless we can find a complete assembly in good condition at a nice price. I'll post a new thread asking about the specifics in a moment but am I right in thinking it'd be more or less a straight swap if we were to obtain a non-abs disc rear beam complete with discs/calipers/handbrake cables, just leaving piping up to be done, or would we be into changing the master cylinder etc as well.

Cheers, Dan

[spider]

Without looking at this, generally the Master Cylinder is different (on most cars not PSA specific) for rear disc or drum brakes.

ABS models do not usually have that "quick seize" compensator valve fitted either at least from what I recall.

I'd personally stick with the drum brake rear axle myself, handbrake seems much more reliable on that as the disc one has an extra lever to 'pull' the calliper rather than rely on separate handbrake shoes...

[ekjdm14]

Ugh, seems we both have a summer "flu" bug as well now (anything else like to bugger up for us while we're about it?) lol

I'm starting to think the same Re: the handbrake mechanism on drum Vs discs, but I suppose any system in good order and well maintained is going to work better than the strange-acting current setup... I'm beginning to suspect the flexi hoses may be failing, either that or a master cyl fault as everything mechanical seems free to move back there, including that lovely compensator valve (guess it'd have to be at least semi free since the car was only MoT'd in the last month and the brakes were perfect then, and had been for the previous year too).

I'm currently thinking/typing through a haze of snot/catarrh/crackling ears and streaming eyes but at the moment the course of action I think is as follows- reassemble shoes/drums temporarily knowing nothing is seized, stamp on the brakes hard and check if they jam again, then decide whether it's flexis/master or freak of nature that caused the breakdown. Then continue to remove the beam, strip it all down with extra sweat and fire and clean/paint/rebuild the thing with everything new that needs to be. Depends though whether I spy a decent disc'd beam for the right money though.

[chinkostu]

part of me thinks they've buggered the adjuster on one side, or the cable is the wrong length so it can't return properly? a weepy cylinder shouldn't cause that.

I'm pretty sure the only distinction on M/C's Peugeot have is wether they have ABS or not, I know they use the same MC across pretty much all the saxos/106's, only the tiny engines had smaller ones. the 206's all seem to have random part numbers though, although I don't think changing to discs would alter the travel that much, fitting huge calipers to the cars with the standard cylinder only lengthened the travel slightly.



edit: will be worth checking the flexi, they're cheap enough. Usually when the MC goes it makes the pedal dangerously soft, as it happened to my 206 (you'd be practically kicking it against the engine and just coasting to a stop, even after bleeding and there were no leaks and new hoses!

[ekjdm14]

Now that could be an option, since you mention it. I'd been thinking the same but forgot all about that, the different thickness handbrake cables are I think also different relative lengths (I.E. the balance bar sits unevenly with both cables fully retracted).

This wouldn't have caused a problem usually other than a very long handbrake travel (which we had prior to the MoT, when I tightened the cable a bit to gain the required "reserve travel").

At a guess whats happened then is the handbrake hasn't released fully on one side and for whatever reason on that day (dirt got in/auto adjuster came back to life for a moment or whatever) it caused the brake to drag a bit on the side with the short cable, resultant heat buildup expanded the shoes/drum slightly causing them to lock on more noticeably and generate more heat/burning smell/much panic.

Thank you sir, for being a sounding board from which my scattered thoughts have finally rebounded and clicked into some semblance of order. Not something I envisaged happening on a day when I feel like this haha. Thanks to all who replied, think we have a prime suspect in my own good-intentioned adjustments!

[Hussarman]

Good luck with the summer flu, mine lasted four weeks.

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

just a mention that I had a similar issue with my 405. http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =4&t=53073

Initially suspected the handbrake cable, and after much head scratching and numerous attempts to resolve it the cause turned out to be the tyre !! A bit of a 'one-off' that, I should think, but nevertheless a possibility to exclude, specially coz its as simple as substituting a different tyre.

[ekjdm14]

Thanks Hussarman, I'm slowly recovering now (I think!) but not before the bug made it's way into both middle ears and left me with a choice of being, to all intents & purposes, temporarily deaf or walking round with my head sideways in order to hear through the lower ear...

Still these things all serve to make life more "interesting" I suppose and the 206 is now on the mend too. Replaced one handbrake cable and both wheel cylinders, normal service seems to be resumed and with insurance renewal prices falling slowly I think the plan now is to stick with the beam we have already and just replace the bearings in that. At least the car's fixtures and fittings have been remarkably seizure-free up to now, so I'm quietly hopeful it'll come apart without too much fuss.

Pug XUD, with luck the brake problem is sorted now but I'll have a quick gander at the thread anyway as I'm intrigued at how the tyre managed to cause similar issues.

Cheers all, and if anyone you know mentions they feel a bit "off" anytime soon avoid them like the absolute plague. you really do NOT want this strain of whatever-it-is that's doing the rounds...

[ekjdm14]

On a side note, Re: the 405/hard tyre thread. I've used jolly-good-car-spares on Ebay as well, and I too would say they live up to their title.