Berlingo to 306 Dw8 engine swap

[General Lee]

Hi there, I'm currently fitting a Dw8 from a '03 berlingo into a' 01 306 (both lucas pumps) and it's time to start resembling the new engine . I've fitted the injector pump, cooling pipework, gearbox etc from the 306 onto the engine.
I've noticed that the injector with the wire does not fit the 306 loom. Will it work if the wires are joined or will I have to remove them? I'm trying to avoid removing the injectors but will do so if there is no other way.
Are the injectors easy to remove?

Other questions:

I've bought the van as a donor are the power steering racks the same? I know I could go look but the van is away now in a different location.

Are the back axles compatible?

Thanks for any help received!

[spider]

The difference here is simple (but complicated) let me try to explain a bit, I will need to use a 206 1.9D as an example though as well.

306 DW8 = All have mechanical advance pumps
206 DW8 = Very early ones (S and T plate possibly V as well) have the mechanical pump , later ones have an electronic advance pump.

Berlingo is going to be electronic pump.

Note this does not have any bearing on the immobilizer they all have that.

The pump 'advance' is electronic on later units (and you have the needle lift sensor on an injector) and mechanical on earlier ones (no sensor on injector)

IMPORTANT: The injectors appear to be the same, however the pipes between the pump and injector are *not* . This means that if you fit the mechanical advance pump you *need* the pipes for this, the electronic advance pump pipes are different. They will fit but it will not run.

Solution for you: Keep your 306 (mechanical advance) pump. You must use your injector pipes from the 306 too.

You should then be able to ignore that wire.

[General Lee]

Thanks for the detail of your reply, it's much appreciated!

Just to clarify: the early 206's have a mechanical advance pump and the berlingo have the electronic advance pump?

Its obviously to do with timing but I don't know how the electronic advance timing works...

So your saying that the berlingo injector pipes (even though they bolted up to the 306 pump) are different to the 306's?
Just to confirm - Are these these the metal pipes out the back of the injector pump?

The pumps look the same and even have the 3 electrical connector blocks in them. Is there any way of telling from looking if it's a mechanical advance pump or an electronic advance pump?

So I should:
change the injector pipes over, keep the berlingo injectors and don't bother with plugging in the 306 wiring to the berlingo injector on the RHS of the engine?

Does this wire serve a purpose?



Any ideas on the second part of my question?

Thanks for your help!

[spider]

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Very early 206's are mechanical advance. Later ones are electronic advance. All Berlingo's are highly likely to be electronic advance simply as I think when they switched from the XUD to the DW8 it was electronic at that 'age'

I may be wrong with my reply above about your 306, sorry. I have done a bit more research. Some later 306 DW8's *are* electronic.

Do you have this injector wire already on the 306 ? By this I mean before you swapped the engine / did any work was it there and wired in ?

The pipes: The high pressure metal pipework between the pump and the injectors yes. They are different. The difference IIRC is actually the 'firing' of them. So you need to keep the pipes with the pump they came from , if that makes sense. It is not something I believed myself until we read about one that would not start and then it would run with the 'original' pipes but not the 'newer' ones.

In other words: You *must* use the pipes from the pump you are fitting. WJZ and WJY pipes are not swappable. They fit but it won't run.

Engine codes:

WJZ = Earlier engine with mechanical advance.
WJY = Later engine with electronic advance.

Injection pump codes:

DWLP11 , fitted to WJZ (mechanical advance) earlier
DWLP12 , fitted to WJY (electronic advanced) later

It may be worth if you are in doubt looking at your V5 doc or on the engine itself (tis near the oil filter area I think on these) for the engine code (on the original 306 unit)

On the front of the pump (the part that is more or less facing the radiator) a large round 'can' is the timing advance, problem is some earlier pumps (mechanical) have these too but they serve different functions in each pump.

Can I ask are you just changing the engine itself ? If so the 'easy fix' here is to use your old 306 pump (and pipes) on the 'replacement' engine. This will avoid any immobiliser issues too.



I'm not sure on the steering rack, sorry. They do look very similar as does the bottom suspension etc.

The rear axle is not quite the same, I recall someone using one on a 405 I think ( ! )

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

I've been told that the Berlingo axle fits the 405, (I believe the source of my info actually did the swap) but I don't know how relevant this is to the 306; might be helpful.... [and might not!]

[General Lee]

Thanks asks for the replies. I spent a bit of time on an update last night but I fell asleep and now it's all gone!

Il try to summarise:
My berlingo to 306 swap (others may differ) :


Injector pipes are identical- identical firing order (pipes are plumbed the same) note my 306 is the later model meridian.


Injector pumps are the same part number DPCDWL12 but there are some differences.
Different voltage written on the yellow rubber on the throttle arm - berlingo 2.23 (never wrote down the 306 voltage )
Berlingo has KVF written on the plate and kvg injectors
306 has CUF written on the plate and CUF injectors.

Injectors are similar but there are differences - differences I've seen : wire off the berlingo injector does not fit 306 loom. I tried opening it with precision torx driver but the wires don't plug out easily so I left it and swapped all the injectors out.
Both injectors have LCR6736001 stamped on them but a different secondary number the tail end of which are CUF and KVG(see above for order).

People will tell you swapping injectors it's an easy job but unless you have the right tools its not.
I had to undo the ps pump and alternator with the bracket to get enough access to remove the injector pump to turn my Sraight and Swan neck 27mm spanners. My long reach 27 impact socket was not long enough (don't have a regular one) . It took tiny turns off the spanners to open the injectors .
Do people assemble the injectors with thread lock? It's there torque settings? Will (excuse my French) s**t tight do?

The air intake manifold on the top of the engine requires a special tool (pliers) to open the clamps on the breather. I got chatting to a Peugeot mechanic at the dealership and he gave me one for the weekend - decent or what? I never met him before and he threw it out to me! I'm getting to like people who about Peugeots-seem like a decent bunch in fairness this forum included !

The bolts holding in the auxiliary items seem soft and I did not want to over torc them. Do people use thread lock?


I'm currently in the middle of fitting the timing belt. What the best way to set the tensioner keeping in mind I don't have a special tool to tension. It's an eccentric tensioner. Any links, vids etc.? Thanks!

[General Lee]

Oh forgot to say that I'm changing the engine due to cam belt failure. Block and head only.

The car had a tip which caused a clip on the cooling system to come in contact with the power steering pipe. The pipe failed after several weeks of driving it and was driven with a leak for a few days. The power steering fluid leaked onto the Aux belt and alternator. The belt snapped after 2 weeks off driving. It snapped on the way to work but I kept driving. Half way home that evening the remains of the belt wrapped around the crank pulley and it snapped the timing belt. So here I am now learning about Dw8 engines

What goes on them mostly after a TB snap ? Just in case ive to get bits or rebuild the spare?

[jimmymarsbar]

Depends on how lucky you are! the pistons could have damaged the valves, you'll only find out once you get stuck in

[spider]

Good info.

Timing belt failure on the XUD and the DW8 usually results in extensive head damage. What I call "cam-oh-3" as the camshaft can end up broken into three pieces (yes really) , I should point out the HDi (DW10) usually just breaks the rocker arms etc but the head is quite different on those in comparison. Further damage is possible but most (seem) to get away with a replacement head. Changing the cam alone is not really as easy as it sounds (although it would be an easier fix!) as the bearings for it are machined into the head so you'd struggle to get it right with a different cam even from an identical car with similar miles.

DW8 is a 'later' development of the earlier XUD unit, designed to meet the emission limits at that time (about 1998 onwards) , the XUD had a much simpler timing belt tension arrangement though (see further down this post)

Injectors have a special socket for ease of removal / fitment. They do have a torque setting.

Remember to change the washer(s) , the sleeves might be OK to re-use (I'm not sure personally, last time I had a bag of 'fittings' so I could change it all) but the coppery washers I'd suggest replacing at least.

Timing Belt: On the DW8 its a manual tensioner, you can just move it around as you need. Its about an 8mm square. so a 1/4 drive extension might work. I use a small square rod I have, a piece of door handle rod might work (Haynes suggests this actually) if you're struggling. Very few people have the proper tool to set it though.

A blob of threadlock on the ancillary mounting bolts is not a bad idea. Its not going to do any harm.

[General Lee]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, appreciate it! I refitted the injectors in the meantime with the old washers-hopefully they will work away. I must tare into the tensioner at the weekend.

[spider]

I can't say how effective the old washers will be for this given the pressures beneath. I've never re-used them.

I'd just suggest to ensure you give the area a good clean off (aerosol brake cleaner etc) and let it evaporate fully. This way you'll see any issues. If they start to 'coal' (black sludge type around them) or you have any signs of fuel leakage the washers will need changing asap though.

[General Lee]

Good to know. Yeah I had to clean out where they seat in the head and the washers did look like there was a blackened effect on the bottom of them even after cleaning. Are they just copper coated? I'll see does it fire first and monitor them after that. Anxious to get it back on the road. I'll buy a injector socket next time rather than go down the spanner route. Any links for those? Quality but at the right price of you get me

[spider]

Ebay is probably the best choice for price. If you stick to a known brand (I mean don't buy an unbranded one) you should be OK. Draper / Sealey should be fine.

I think the washers are almost pence (but not 100% sure) they are not expensive that's for sure. A Lucas/Bosch specialist (a diesel service centre that would do pump repairs etc) will have them I'd expect, and probably cheaper than a main dealer. Do not overlook Citroen dealer though as the engine is the same, so if you do replace them it only matters that you get DW8 ones.

In theory you are meant to change the sleeves too but (someone can correct me here probably) if they are undamaged they can be re-used.

[elma]

You'll get weeping if the washers are too gone. I'm not sure how good an idea it is to reanneal them. New ones are so cheap that, considering the pressure, I'd recommend just replacing them.

[General Lee]

Well I got the engine in and its running albeit not great though. The engine is hunting when idle and generally not running great. Exhaust fumes seem a bit much too.

1 theory I have for the rough idle is that I used the same injector pump which had slipped the timing so I think the injector pulley may have slipped a tiny bit in the bolts. I noticed the outline of where they were previously but I thought that it may have had some work done in the past so put it down to that. I looked at the berlingo pump and the three bolts are like from the factory.
I locked the flywheel, camshaft and injector pump when doing the timing but I felt that they weren't lining up 100% precisely. Could I be onto something here?

2nd theory is that I had to break the seal in the fuel pipes to get them off as I couldn't the figure out how to get them off without breaking them. I have them just popped in at the minute. I can see a few air bubbles in the transparent fuel intake pipe. Could this be the cause? Can those hide ends/ clips be bought?


Something I overlooked before trying to install is the rear driveshaft mounting bracket is different. I had to pop the engine out again after notice it. I didn't have much bolted on but it was just annoying.

I haven't the gearbox filled yet. Whats the easiest way of filling it?

Thanks for any help received!


I must start googling an injector socket I'd say!