405 "N" plate 1.9 Turbo Diesel Problem

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franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

405 "N" plate 1.9 Turbo Diesel Problem

Post by franco_cov » 01 Jan 2004, 12:45

I seem to be burning oil ?? i have recently replaced all the breather pipes to and from the valve on the side of the intercooler and still have the problem as my original pipe had a bad kink in it and i thought this may be causing breathing problems.... anyway what i have found is that the air outlet ?? on that connects into the intercooler (looking at the engine, right side) appears to have oil in it and when reving you can see it starting to trickle up this pipe ??? and when this is disconnected from the inter coooler i dont see any smoke, but when i reconnect it i do, and i have had a few intercooler seals (the seal that is under the intercooler that joins the manifold)keep blowing but i have found that the oil is being sucked through the intercooler and then soaking the seal causing it to expand and then causing it to leak. Do you know of a way of getting this repaired, i am in the west mindlands (UK) or is it something i can do as I hope i dont have to replace a turbo because of this leak, as I have just bought a caravan and need this to be working.....
I eagerly await any help and suggestions [:(]
Kind regards
[:(][:(] Here's hoping someone can help me [:(][:(]

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 01 Jan 2004, 16:43

Whats the colour of the smoke, blue/grey or black and when does it most noticably appear.
Its normal to find oil in the turbo outlet pipe, most of it gets there from the breather and is simply sucked into the turbo and blown out again, and yes the intercooler/manifold seal does swell up but it shouldn't get blown out even so.
Some of the oil will be from the turbo its self, when the bearings and seals in it are badly worn they are almost allways worst on the exhaust side, this leads to blue/grey smoke as the oil is burnt by the hot gasses in the exhaust and not from the internal combustion process, it is most noticable when the engine is ticking over or only lightly loaded.
If the turbo was dumping a quantity of oil in that made this much difference to the smoke, then I think you would have experienced uncontrolable engine runaway by now as it consumed its own oil.
Leave the intercooler connected except for the manifold pressure sensing pipe, this is from the front of the intercooler to the lower front side of the Lucas injection pump, or from the intercooler to the top of the Bosch injection pump, there will be oil present in this pipe also, block it off by doubling it back with a tie wrap or by pushing something up it.
Leave the pipe connection at the injection pump open and see what if anything has happened to the smoke.
Dave

franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

Post by franco_cov » 03 Jan 2004, 17:47

Thanks Dave, I will have a go at this so you say leave the middle pipe connected to the inter cooler and just remove the other end and block it with something and leave the connector it normally goes on bare and open ??? [;)]
What will this achieve?? I checked this for blockages and blew through it and there were no blockages ?? So am a little miffed. [}:)] At the moment I have left the chamber seal off because it will just go again once the oil gets at it....
Someone said that my turbo oil seal may have gone [:(] ??? can this be repaired easy as i know the turbo works and even better when i put the chamber seal back on so dont like the idea of getting another turbo and getting it fitted ..
I await your reply before I attempt this pipe thing in case I have mis understood you. I appreciate your help [:)]
Regards
Francis. [8D]

franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

Post by franco_cov » 03 Jan 2004, 17:49

Sorry Dave,
The colour of the smoke I think is mainly grey not dark black suggesting its diesel... I only notice the smoke when i have to reach say 2,500 + or when i first start after leaving it overnight but that clears in a couple of seconds so that I assume and have been told is nothing to worry about??
Still waiting for your reply [:D]
Regards
Francis.

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 03 Jan 2004, 21:40

Leaving that pipe disconnected will prevent boost fueling, so if the smoke stops it would appear to be diesel smoke, if it doesn't stop it may well be oil generated smoke (assuming no injection pump problems).
Performance with this pipe disconnected should be very severly affected.
Dave

franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

Post by franco_cov » 05 Jan 2004, 03:17

Dave,
Ok I have put another chamber seal on to stop blowing and the power is back again I removed that pipe and the smoke was dark black and there seemed to be less performance but when i put it back on the power was alot better but the smoke become lighter in colour (blueish) and way i took it to a dual carriageway and give it a bit of revs and when i hit 2,500 - 3000 in 5th gear say 60 mph + it starts to smoke then when i reach say 80 mph it really starts to throw out smoke, but as i said the power is there. Any suggestions ??? is it the turbo oil seal gone and can it be repaired easily without removing or replacing the turbo???? I am going to closely monitor the oil consumption to see how bad its burning it to make sure it dont run dry..... Any further suggestions of what i can try or like i said before how it can be easily fixed without the need to remove or replace the turbo I would be very much appreciated for your help.
Awaiting your reply
Regards
Francis.

franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

Post by franco_cov » 05 Jan 2004, 03:21

I also forgot to mention that when i took that pipe off there was oil in the pipe too??? is this normal this suggests to me oil is being pumped through the intercooler ?? as i previously thought ??
regards
Francis.

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 05 Jan 2004, 03:53

Hmm...well Franco I'm curious as to why it should smoke bad with the manifold pressure sensing pipe off, that should have reduced fueling and the smoke a fair bit which makes me think it could be getting too much fuel to begin with.
Yes its normal for there to be some oil in the intercooler, and it will find its way into that small pipe that goes to the pump, these engines and turbos can cover huge mileages and the amount of oil that gets into the intercooler can make you think there is something very wrong, when in fact there often isn't and for the most part should be expected from a high miler.
If the turbo oil seals are past it the bearings are probably in a similar state, there is nothing for it but to remove it for the work to be done, you can't do it yourself as its a specialist undertaking, for this reason its often less expensive to obtain a good used unit from a breakers and fit that.
What is the mileage on the clock.
What pump has it got.
When was the timing belt last changed.
Is the air filter clean.
Dave

franco_cov
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 Dec 2002, 06:24

Post by franco_cov » 05 Jan 2004, 19:00

Dave i was reving it a little to achieve that black smoke i mentioned with that pipe off it that makes a difference..
I had this car only 3 months before having to replace the engine, gearbox and readiator as the camrod decided to make an appearance through the side of my engine whilst driving at 40 mph..... Nice NOT!! anyway so i had another engine etc put in from another car that had just been scrapped but i kept the intercooler from the last engine as for the turbo who knows so knowing my luck they simply swapped the engine and turbo as one unit to make it easier for the garage ?? anyway turns out that this car was used for a taxi anyway so who knows what they did with it no doub neglected it..... but i have recently enquired and i can get hold of a turbo for £70 delivered with 4 months guarantee... which i thought was not bad at all but its the cost of fitting it back street garages are asking for £200 +vat to start with thats a lot of money any ideas ??
Regards
Francis.

mbunting
Posts: 712
Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19

Post by mbunting » 05 Jan 2004, 22:29

Fitting a turbo on my Xantia ( slightly easier because the intercooler is not on the engine ) only took me approx 3 hours. It's not that difficult if you're methodical and thorough.
Basically, you tip the engine forwards, remove the inlet manifold, disconnect the exhaust from the turbo, along with the inlet piping, and remove the turbo from the exhaust manifold. You may find it easier to lift the turbo out with the manifold attached.
Replacement is ( as the good book says ) the reverse of removal.

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 06 Jan 2004, 04:19

Well its quite likely to have had a hard life in a taxi Francis, If I were you I would get it looked at by a diesel specialist before spending money on turbos, you need to be sure the money is going where its needed, its a lot of money if it doesn't cure it.
A good diesel bloke will tell you whats what once he see's what its doing.
Dave