epic pump timing after stripdown

[moizeau]

Any advice would be gratefully received. I've just done a seal rebuild. Everything seemed to go well. However, the car won't start, although it does have fuel getting through to the injectors. 2 things have come to mind, both related to timing. Firstly is it possible to fit the plunger, ramp and roller assy 180 out. The 2nd was that the rotor housing came out, and I could have put it in the wrong way up. Timing regarding the belt etc is fine as I locked the pump pulley with 2 8mm bolts. Also the 'K' light stays on whilst cranking, which I presume is reconfirming my timing query. Pump back off tomorrow!
Thanks in advance for any guidance

[CitroJim]

Yes, it is possible...

I have a whole host of pictures of an EPIC pump strip I did a while back and also some other technical documentation...

Will have to dig it out of the archives so please bear with me for a bit...

I also have the guidance for checking static timing which is critical on this pump...

It may be thta when yu reassembled tre ESOS valves that one or other of the O rings fell out of place and has rendered the valve inoperative...

The EML will illuminate with ESOS problems..

Have you read the Engine ECU faults with a Pug Planet (PP2000) yet? That may help pin down the issue...

[moizeau]

Thanks Jim, it was your guide I used. All seals were vasolined well. Are there any marks to time the plunger shaft to the pulley shaft, I think that may be the part that's 180 out. It doesn't even try to start, but there is fuel getting to the injectors because I left the pipes loose in order to bleed the fuel through after priming the pump (then once wet, tightened) I wasn't planning on rotating anything to start with, but I decided to check the bearing condition for play, end float and freeness.
Thanks

[CitroJim]

Ahh, so you've already seen most of what I have then...

Do you have a copy of the EPIC Workshop Manual?

If not, let me know

[moizeau]

Thanks Jim. I've got exploded view diagrams, the autodata sheet that references coded and non-coded faults, along with the static timing info but not an actual workshop manual which hopefully shows relevant timing marks within the pump. Do you need me to PM you with my email or have you access to it being admin?
Thanks very much again
Pete

[CitroJim]

It's too big to email Pete so I'll PM you later today with another method...

[moizeau]

It must be a monster! Good job we don't need the postman then.
Thanks

[CitroJim]

It must be a monster! Good job we don't need the postman then.
Thanks

No, it's 9MB but too big for my email...

Pete, I'm sorry, today and this evening have been manic and I've not had a chance. It'll be tomorrow now. Apologies...

[moizeau]

No worries Jim, I found this, in French , would it be the same one?
http://ludcpt.free.fr/XM/Mecanique/EpicRep.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although my my french is good I would love to see the english version, so much easier when you're tired
Thanks again

[CitroJim]

Pete,

PM sent

[moizeau]

Thanks Jim, that's superb, will play tomorrow and post back
All the best

[moizeau]

Just to finish the thread ( as all should do, so that everyone gets an end to the story). Thanks to Jim's 'how to' the pump was removed and rebuilt with new seals and refitted. No Start! The reason- when rebuilding, keep the the woodruff key at 2 o'clock as you look at the pump, then the widest part of the plunger/roller assy needs to be at 6 o'clock (as you look at IT). One other thing, if the rotor falls out (which compressed the fuel) the stamped arrow showing the direction of rotation needs to be positioned towards the drive pully (i.e. you shouldn't see the markings whilst reassy), apart from that follow Jim
Cheers all

[CitroJim]

Pete,

Good to hear all is now well

Excellent and well done

[moizeau]

Just to update my woes. Nearly 12 months on and the pump is playing up again! I did change the external esos o rings in situe, better for a week then the same. When I took the cover off to remove the valves I noticed a small glistening of diesel on the base of the top valve, and when I unscrewed it I heard the pump sucking in air. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion it's the inner esos o rings. Inner and outer o rings have now been ordered. I decided to take the pump off ready for their arrival. I've read they can be done in place, but doing it for the first time, I prefer to do it on a clean bench, where nothing can fall into the abyss. On dismantling the pump all the wiring insulation from the plug fell apart. I stripped it back to about 6'' from the plug, where, at last it looked reasonable and have rewired and heatshrinked it.
My first question (Jim?) is, would this sound a reasonable conclusion? (Regarding the inner o rings)
The second is, If I had access to a lexia, would the kit have narrowed the problem down faster by measuring flow rates?
If so, where can I get one? I've seen millions advertised on ebay, the price varies a lot. Any recommendations?
Just put a (French) mot on it, with 4 tyres, wheel bearing, rear discs etc. so don't want to bin the car. Also I don't like being beaten, and if I can learn something along the way, even better.
Thanks in advance

[CitroJim]

An interesting update

To be honest, it's been such a long time now since I've worked on an EPIC pump that I have managed to forget the detail of the ESOS valves I would say though that what you say sounds very reasonable and has to be worth a go. very wise not to try doing it in-situ.

As for Lexia, yes, the test routines offered for the EPIC are very comprehensive and I'm sure they would help to pin down the issue.

As for a recommendation as to which of the millions available I can't help as I bought mine years and years ago and the market has moved on rapidly since then. I'd start a new post asking for recommendations...

Looking forward to the next update but please try to make it a bit quicker this time!!!