807 gearbox removal

[miked]

It's a 2.0 HDi peugeot 807 with a 5 speed manual box. Same as the Citroen C8, Fiat Ulysse and Lancia Phedra.

Lost 3rd gear yesterday. Changing down approaching a roundabout and it just wouldn't go in. All the other gears are fine. I presumed it was a cable problem so when I got home I disconnected the cables at the gearbox end and tried to select 3rd and couldn't so the problem is in the box. I've read about syncromesh problems with 3rd gear but even with the car stopped / engine off it just won't engage.

Since then I've spent hours on google and searching this and other forums but I can't work out the best way to get the box off. Has anyone removed the box on one of these or done a clutch change and if so what's the best way? Currently after a good crawl about above and under the car the only way I can see that will work is remove the bumper, front slam panel, radiator, intercooler, condenser etc and take the engine plus box out the front then split them. But the air-con is icy cold so I'd rather find a simpler way.

Any suggestions welcome.

[flying clutchman]

Unfortunately I'm not really familiar with the 807, but I've done a few P Expert vans which I believe is very similar (someone will soon tell me if I'm wrong). When I do the clutch I just pull the gearbox off to the side and rest it on the subframe. If you want to take the box out of the car you would need to drop the subframe. No need to take the engine out.

[Oldpug]

Support the engine with a cross beam,remove the front sub frame & exhaust,with it all exposed removing the gearbox is then simple.Its a long job,lots of nuts & bolts,a big heavy box,but a straight forward job.

[citronut]

Support the engine with a cross beam,remove the front sub frame & exhaust,with it all exposed removing the gearbox is then simple.Its a long job,lots of nuts & bolts,a big heavy box,but a straight forward job.

isnt the 807 much like the Synergie as far as front inner wing ledges go, if so i think it woulsd be very difficult to purch a support beam on the ledges as they are very short and slopping steeply

[Oldpug]

Support the engine with a cross beam,remove the front sub frame & exhaust,with it all exposed removing the gearbox is then simple.Its a long job,lots of nuts & bolts,a big heavy box,but a straight forward job.

isnt the 807 much like the Synergie as far as front inner wing ledges go, if so i think it woulsd be very difficult to purch a support beam on the ledges as they are very short and slopping steeply

Alright then,support the engine with? does not matter what it is as long as it is supported safely. engine crane? I think I`ve seen some sort of Peugeot special tool cross beam?

[flying clutchman]

support the engine with an axle stand,bottle jack, or small trolley jack.

[Oldpug]

With something UNDER? the engine how do you get rid of the subframe? Also I would want that engine supported with something a lot safer and substantial when refitting that huge big box.I suppose the only answer is an engine crane.

[citronut]

With something UNDER? the engine how do you get rid of the subframe? Also I would want that engine supported with something a lot safer and substantial when refitting that huge big box.I suppose the only answer is an engine crane.

i would use an engine crane to hang the engine on and a trolley jack under the box

[flying clutchman]

you only need to get the subrame onto the floor,it's not neccessary to take the subframe elsewhere!

[miked]

Brilliant. Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to take a couple of days off work at the end of next week so will tackle it then. I'll make sure I take pictures and bore you with the details in the blog section.

I can drive it OK until then. If you are going to loose a gear then in my opinion 3rd is the one to loose. However the wife (it's her car) has insisted we swap cars until it's fixed and I'm missing my Xsara already.

Mike.

[citronut]

the turd gear appears to be a failing point on a particular PSA gear box ( BE what ever ), as the one in my R reg TD XANT has the crunchy turd gear, and the replacement box i fitted shortly after getting the car has done exactly the same,
im sure somewhere on here it is said to put the later box in, but i cant remember which model box that would be

[miked]

Just a final update on this.

I chickened out of doing it myself, bought a 2nd hand box and took it to a local independent garage.
What they thought was a straight forward job turned out to be not so easy. A couple of the subframe bolts wouldn't come out and whatever sort of captive nut they screw into in the chassis un-captivated themselves. So they had to get the grinder and welder out to sort that. Luckily I'd agreed a fixed price. I got them to put a solid flywheel conversion kit in while they were doing it as it was still on it's original clutch/DMF at 115,000 miles.

Thanks for all the advice though.

[Oldpug]

Fitting a "solid kit" was a bad idea,that engine was designed around a DMF.There have been many discussions here and on other forums concerning DMF`s.
I have heard of engines braking crankshafts,cracking bell housings and so on(not on Peugeot`s though) after fitting solid kits.I`m not an engineer,its something to do with balance/vibration etc.
A DMF has springs and moves,by fitting a solid flywheel you take away the "give",So something else has to "give".I also agree that DMF`s are causing problems and are very expensive to replace.
I have a feeling we will have a whole new discussion on the pros & cons.

[flying clutchman]

I think the dmf v solid argument has been done to death but here is an interesting titbit. Tomorrow (monday) I am fitting a clutch to a 2010 citroen dispatch 1.6Hdi. This is NOT fitted with a DMF. Whenever I have fitted clutches to any PSA vehicle fitted with this engine previously they have always had a DMF fitted. This is obviously the newest vehicle I have been involved with.(just out of warranty) Similarly the Renault traffic uses the same basic engine and box as a Laguna dci but the car has a DMF the van doesn't. The Dmf is nothing to do with engine design it's all to do with drivetrain smoothness. More important in a car than a van. Oh, the conversion kits are usually made by Valeo, who make the original DMF/clutch unit. Go figure as the yanks say.

[miked]

The way I looked at it was that it is essentially the same engine as in my Xsara, both being Hdi 110's (although the 807 is 16 valve) and they are both a similar age. The Xsara has had a solid flywheel from new, so I was confident getting one put in the 807. I do hope I'm not going to be proved wrong.

Edit: Just realised the 807/Xsara gearboxes must be different as reverse is in a different place. Anyway I'm not worried, the garage suggested the solid conversion and said they had done hundreds, mainly on transits without having any unhappy customers back.