Other opinions on 306 problem.

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alan s
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Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by alan s » 23 Sep 2003, 14:41

On a board out here, we seem to have a never ending string of postings re: the 306 in particular the S16 pinging when cruising and/or at rev midrange (3000 RPM quoted) both with & without load.
Common response is to give the car a "shot" of octane booster or upgrade fuel which usually leads to responses that it has improved but not cured it.
I've given what I feel is a solution to this problem, but would feel easier about it with a second (or more) opinion. I have also queried why it is mostly 306 that have the problem more so than other models with similar mileages & driving conditions & have suggested that perhaps sensor location could play a part in this due to heat degradation of wires and/or sensors or alternatively moisture or dirt & grease.
Anybody got anything to ad to the debate?
Alan S [?]

tomsheppard
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Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 15:46

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by tomsheppard » 24 Sep 2003, 04:48

Too warm out there mate. find the resistance of the efi's temp sensor hot and cold then if the resistance rises as it gets hot, shove a resistor in parallel, if it falls, series. email me if you need more help but I think it will enrich it a bit.

CITMAN
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Joined: 02 Aug 2002, 00:22

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by CITMAN » 25 Sep 2003, 03:21

My zx 1.4i has always suffered with pinking problems and seems to like BP petrol (95 ron). Because when I use BP its reduced if not gone. If I use esso 95 ron then it pinks when under load, shell is slightly better. Im going to try shell optimax in it next to see if it makes any difference. Trouble is the BP garage that used to be only a couple of miles away has know closed.
The car been on diagnostic computer and everything is fine. Engine emmisions are fine. When the car pinks (pings) I usually use a higher gear and increase the revs a bit and it goes. It pinks around 2000 - 3000 rpm.
I also saw this problem on the aussie frogs website and i am interested to get some feedback on the problem and how to sort it.

petrolhd
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Joined: 22 Dec 2001, 22:07

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by petrolhd » 25 Sep 2003, 08:02

I have a 306 with TU5JP engine and it suffers from the same problem. The engine has done 113,000 km and I can feel and hear very subtle pinging when approaching 2800 RPM. Tried everything from 95 RON to 98 RON and the only difference was less pinging but the pinging cannot be totally eliminated.
I live in the tropics and the ambient temperature is 32 C most of the time but I expereince more power and no pinging when we have cool and reainy days with about 26 to 28 C. The same happens at night when the temperature hovvers in the neighbourhood of 26 to 27.
It could be temperature related. Tried retarding the timing but there is no means to do so as the timing is controlled by the ECU.
Petrolhd

petrolhd
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Joined: 22 Dec 2001, 22:07

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by petrolhd » 25 Sep 2003, 08:03

I have a 306 with TU5JP engine and it suffers from the same problem. The engine has done 113,000 km and I can feel and hear very subtle pinging when approaching 2800 RPM. Tried everything from 95 RON to 98 RON and the only difference was less pinging but the pinging cannot be totally eliminated.
I live in the tropics and the ambient temperature is 32 C most of the time but I expereince more power and no pinging when we have cool and reainy days with about 26 to 28 C. The same happens at night when the temperature hovvers in the neighbourhood of 26 to 27.
It could be temperature related. Tried retarding the timing but there is no means to do so as the timing is controlled by the ECU.
Petrolhd

alan s
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Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by alan s » 25 Sep 2003, 09:03

Good to see this is generating a bit of debate. I'm a bit of an outsider on this one because it's not directly affecting me as it's not my cars it's happening on, but it seems to happen so often that I felt it needed someone to follow it to a logical conclusion.
My guess is that it's somehow sensor related possibly due to wires showing deterioration or contamination as Tom has suggested, "the efi's temp sensor."
My car, a BX 16V I can run on everything under any load or rev conditions, from basic unleaded petrol to BP Ultimate/Shell Optimax and regardless of whether it's 40 deg C or 4 it simply does not ping. Also if it was a design fault, ALL of these models would do it, but they don't; just the occasional one which to me points to a malfunction.
Whilst the higher octane seems to reduce the symptoms (on some but not others, again pointing to a malfunction) this is not curing the fault but merely hiding the symptoms. I've compared this to a friend I had who died from cancer. I spoke to him a few days before he passed away & he commented that he was in no pain whatsoever because he was pumped full of morphine, the point being, he still had a terminal complaint, this was hiding the symptoms just as high octane fuel is doing on these cars.
My guess is that the engine temp sensor is telling the ECU the engine is hotter than it is & causing it to lean the mix and/or alter the ignition timing.
Has anyone done the test yet that Tom suggested?
Alan S

alan s
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Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by alan s » 25 Sep 2003, 15:39

Another thought dawned on me today on this one; what say the injector nozzles were partially blocked?
Would the partial starving of fuel by the dirty injector nozzles create the pinging due to mixture starvation? Has anyone ever tried having theirs ultra sonically cleaned & if so did this fix or improve the symtoms?
Alan S

CITMAN
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Joined: 02 Aug 2002, 00:22

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by CITMAN » 26 Sep 2003, 02:00

Found a BP garage today and filled up with 95 RON and within a couple of miles the pinking had gone. Only time will tell if BP petrol has stopped my pinking problem.

Malcolm
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Joined: 01 Dec 2002, 16:01

Other opinions on 306 problem.

Post by Malcolm » 03 Oct 2003, 01:48

I had similar on Vauxhall Cavalier 60k +. As you say different garages made a difference. Refueling whilst on holiday in France no problem. Refueling back in UK, immediate pinking. I recall using synthetic oil stopped it. I also had a camshaft to change and de-coked whilst head off. Sorted.