HELP! - 306 DW8 Possible Camshaft Seizure?

[Chlorate]

Interesting, very weird to see the sprocket break like that.

My guess would be that when they were reassembling the camshaft some s*it (technical term) got under the centre cap, which promptly destroyed the bearing, or perhaps the caps were torqued down far too tightly. Although why this would kill the cam sprocket instead of the belt is anyone's guess, I would have said the belt would get ripped off and the sprocket would be fine.

I'd definitely say that the garage was responsible, you can't expect a camshaft to fail like that for no good reason it's just too coincidental that a couple of months ago some monkey took it apart. Although you can't force them to do the work for you, it may be an idea to get it done somewhere who will be able to tell you exactly what happened, then take the original garage to small claims to recover the cost and maybe a bit more.

To save some money, you can sometimes replace the camshaft, so long as it hasn't done much damage to everything else. So long as the bearing clearances are within tolerances (a plastigauge can help check) you'll get away with it. Some specialists keep a number of bearing caps for just such an occasion.

One final thing, you may want to look at the vacuum pump on the other end of the cam, if it has the direct drive version then the little piece of metal that couples the pump to the cam may have broken, it did on my ZX when the water pump seized and broke the cams.

Alex

[jamesgmg]

Garage has come back following my letter, the offer on the table is I supply an engine, they fit it. Not quite there yet, but making progress...

[jamesgmg]

Interesting, very weird to see the sprocket break like that.

My guess would be that when they were reassembling the camshaft some s*it (technical term) got under the centre cap, which promptly destroyed the bearing, or perhaps the caps were torqued down far too tightly. Although why this would kill the cam sprocket instead of the belt is anyone's guess, I would have said the belt would get ripped off and the sprocket would be fine.

What is visible is that the sprocket has been dragged to the end of it's slots, at that point I guess it was a case of what's strongest, sprocket or belt. It's a gates belt so a good one. Aren't the belts reinforced with kevlar?

[spider]

The belts are quite strong yes. Those bolts holding the hub are also usually tight enough to stop it moving as well (given that's their purpose)

I guess the "offer" above is a start. Then again do you want them fitting it ? and if its a used engine is it going to want a compliment of belts etc, I know if I was fitting a used one it would be loads easier to change the cambelt on the floor while there was plenty of space etc.

[Oldpug]

Garage has come back following my letter, the offer on the table is I supply an engine, they fit it. Not quite there yet, but making progress...

That`s not a very good offer is it?? Tell them to !**! off.(in legal language) A GOOD!! engine will cost you what? £400-£500?? and if you go that route get a mechanic (not them) to fit a new cambelt etc before you hand the engine over for fitting,together with new oil and filter etc,more money !Trouble is in the unlikely event of them paying for and fitting an engine OR an exchange cylinder head will you be confident they have done a good job? NO!! you will get a cheep lash up job.The only way for you to get your engine running with confidence is for you to employ a good mechanic to fit an exchange cylinder head,cambelt etc and they pay the bill.Keep at them,good luck.

[Oldpug]

Any news on this one??

[jamesgmg]

The garage phoned today in response to my 2nd letter and they are now offering to fix it. I'm requesting they detail this in writing. This would on the basis they fix it whatever they "find" and I would not pursue any of the other costs I incurred. The boss would be doing the work personally. I'm inclined to go with this as they don't really seem to be a bad outfit, I just think they stuffed up with the mechanic that did they original work.

[Oldpug]

It sounds as if they have seen the light,well done.I would go down and have a friendly "face to face" with this boss to suss him out and be confident that he will tackle the rebuild of your engine personally.If he is a genuine tradesman and it was he who started the business off I `m sure he will be concerned,he just employed the wrong people.At the end of the day if you get your car running perfectly at no extra cost to you great.

[jamesgmg]

They've now dismantled the engine and have found they were at fault. So reconditioned cylinder head has been ordered with new head bolts and a new timing belt kit, plus other items. They are assuring me it will be done properly as they "don't want to see it again"! Anything else I should be requesting? I was thinking an oil change might not be a bad idea as there was some swarf knocking around.

He's going to go through the diagnosis with the parts they've removed when I pick it up. I have a 12 month warranty on the work in writing.

[Oldpug]

That`s good news,well done the garage for admitting liability but its a shame its taken two months to get it.
A recon` head and cam belt kit will take care of all the damage done.An oil & filter change is definitely recommended.
What about the water pump? was it replaced at the original job? if not get them to fit a new one even if you have to pay for the part (£25??)that will rule out everything in the timing area.A new auxiliary belt and close inspection of its tensionor is recommended.
Well done to you for you perseverance,at last your car will be back on the road and running perfectly.Its nice to see a dispute resolved in such a satisfactory way.

[spider]

Should really have an oil + filter change anyway if its had the head off. New coolant obviously (I have seen a garage do a head and when it came to me for some brake work a month later, they had refilled it with plain water, a test showed no coolant strength at all!)

I'd recommend an oil / filter while its there and another one shortly after, 500 to 1000 miles later seems reasonable.

[jamesgmg]

What about the water pump? was it replaced at the original job? if not get them to fit a new one even if you have to pay for the part (£25??)that will rule out everything in the timing area.A new auxiliary belt and close inspection of its tensionor is recommended.

The water pump is very new, it was changed along with a timing belt kit and aux belt not long before this garage worked on it.

What should they be looking for in the aux tensioner? Presuming play or roughness?

[Oldpug]

There are a number of different types and they have been known to give trouble.It will be normal obvious stuff so just ask them to make sure the tensionor is inline and doing its job,I`m sure they will realise if anything is not right.

[jamesgmg]

Got the car back on friday, all looking good and starts on the button. Didn't get to see the old parts as the car was dropped off and the head was an exchange, though I see proper peugeot/citroen stickers on some of the parts so doesn't look like they scrimped. New oil and coolant too.

Will be using it a fair bit over the next few weeks so will get a good test!

Not much explanation was offered, other than he doesn't think the camshaft sprocket was put back on properly! Guess I'll never really know.

Thanks for all your help and support guys, I might well have jacked it in and scrapped it without this forum.

[spider]

Its good to hear things have a positive ending, well lets hope so.

As you say we can only speculate as to what really happened originally. I had some ideas but others have already posted them in the topic anyway.

As long as all is OK now and it stays that way, all the better.