306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

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Post by addo »

You'll definitely need to bleed them all - more air will be in the rear lines than front.

As a side note, my 405 had terribly aged lines to the rear arms - one was so swollen inside it barely passed fluid.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by JohnD »

Xsarahdi wrote: Do you think they just need bleeding again?
Sounds as though you're squeezing air. And Yes - you need to do all four wheels. What ABS system do you have? Our 306 doesn't have ABS so I'm not too familiar with it. There are two systems - a Bendix 2 wheel and Bosch 4 wheel. Sequence for bleeding goes RH Rear; LH Rear; LH Front; RH Front. But I believe on the Bendix system the ABS modulator also needs to be bled. Make sure you keep the reservoir topped up as you bleed.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Damn, I was hoping I'd only have to bleed at the rear. I just hope the front bleed screws are not as seized as the old back ones(I know I didn't have to touch the old back ones but thought I'd just try since I was fitting new ones, and they broke off!).

Addo - I think it has had new ones in the past when I looked through the receipts.

Strangely in the old receipts I found one for a new compensator but then 8 days later another receipt for a part refund on it and it had been freed a couple of times before that. :?

JohnD - It has ABS on the rear too so I suppose it means it has the Bosch system.

I'll give bleeding another go this evening and hopefully, fingers crossed I will get it sorted this time!

Thanks
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by JohnD »

Xsarahdi wrote: I just hope the front bleed screws are not as seized as the old back ones(
I find it helps if you give the bleed nipple a light smack with a hammer square on to the end.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by citronut »

Xsarahdi wrote:Damn, I was hoping I'd only have to bleed at the rear.
Thanks
Mark

if you had done one side at a time and clamped the flexi hose air would not have gone back up the system :wink: ,

also bleed each side before removing the other cylinder,

these and most modern cars have dual circuit systems these days, so left front and right rear are both on one circuit and right front and left rear are on the other,

this is why you will now have to bleed the fronts as well

regards malcolm
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Thank you everyone for all your help and tips! Luckily the front belled screws weren't too bad at all :shock:

I've now bled the system again and it seems a lot better with less sponginess than yesterday. Brakes seems really strong now. However I'm not sure if the brakes work so far up the top of the pedal as they used to when lightly braking, but maybe that's just me imagining things. Hopefully it will get a pass now! Got the retest tomorrow afternoon so we'll soon see.

Thanks again
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by citronut »

best of luck with the re/test

does the pedal become firmer if you pump it,

if so this could still be more air in the system or the shoes need adjusting up a bit more

regards malcolm
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Well it failed again :(

Kind of my fault on a brake pipe as I had cleaned all the ones I could see rust on but when he had it on the ramp again he showed me where and it wasn't really visible unless high up on ramps, which obviously I don't have.

The brake efficiency was still below by 2% as well. I tried the weight in the back, as advised by the MOT man but think all that did was add to the vehicle weight therefore messing with the efficiency percentage calculations. I've worked out that if it weren't for the extra weight and the brakes still gave the same force it would have been just in 50%. The figures are up on last time though:

Last time:
Front: Left - 206 kgf (locked) Right - 212 kgf (locked)
Rear: Left - 83 kgf Right - 68 kgf
Total: 569 kgf (45%)

Parking: Left - 81 kgf (locked) Right - 87 kgf (locked)

This time
Front: Left - 200 kgf (locked) Right - 233 kgf (locked)
Rear: Left - 101 kgf Right - 97 kgf
Total: 631 kgf (48%)

Parking: Left - 75 kgf (locked) Right - 176 kgf

The tester thought this was strange! I asked him if the compensator could be affecting things and he said something saying that the car couldn't be ABS if it had a compensator. He thought that there was no need for it on ABS cars! But apparently he was only MOT tester so didn't know too much about it.
does the pedal become firmer if you pump it,

if so this could still be more air in the system or the shoes need adjusting up a bit more
Maybe it does a little bit, but MOT man said they felt ok to him. I'm going to get them to do the brake pipe next week (hoping it won't cost an arm and a leg!), so they'll have to bleed it again so if there is any air, then they'll get it out.

This is going on forever, but hopefully letting them do it should mean a pass!!
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by citronut »

it seems by those readings you might still have air in the left front to right rear circuit,
and going by the parking brake readings the left one needs the shoes adjusting up a bit more,

also unless the MOT station has a weigh bridge they will still only go by the listed weight for your specific car,

so weight in the boot should not affect the percentage's,

regards malcolm
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Thanks, that helps to explain things a bit more! I think the rollers they put it on must weigh the vehicle. On the print out it gives the weight over the front and rear and total weight 1st time was 1260kg and 2nd time was 1320kg.

Bit of a stupid question but since the tester didn't know the car had ABS does it make any difference to the set up of the machine, do they have to input the car into the computer connected to the rollers?

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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by JohnD »

Xsarahdi wrote: the tester didn't know the car had ABS

But how could he not know. They check that the ABS light goes out when the car is started.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Exactly what I thought! It is a main dealership too. He only checked that afterwards to confirm it had ABS as he didn't believe me.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by citronut »

as far as i know the tester either enters the weight and or it is on VOSA's data base for any particular model,
i have not heard of the brake rollers checking the weight???

regards malcolm
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by Xsarahdi »

Oh right, that's odd. The weight is different in each print out and I assumed it was because of the box of bricks making the 2nd time heavier, so I thought the rollers might weigh each axle. The print out shows the weight split into front and rear. He did have it on the lift just before so would that be able to measure the weight? If it was on a data base then the weight wouldn't have changed, unless he entered the wrong car.
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Re: 306 MOT Service Brake Efficiency

Post by JohnD »

Xsarahdi wrote:. He did have it on the lift just before so would that be able to measure the weight? .
I wouldn't think that's likely. I always watch when my four cars go through the MOT. There's a display board over the rollers and the weight on the axle always shows on the board. Whether the rollers actually weigh the car or whether the machine is programmed, I don't know.
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