Partner 1.9D hesitant then stalled!

Post by **Rhothgar** » 27 Apr 2012, 15:22

Hi all,

My brother called me today.

He's been running his 51 plate Partner Combi on 50/50 veg / diesel mix for a couple of months against my advice. Believed to be Turbo model.

He broke down today. Car started fine this morning - slightly hesitant on the revs.

He drove 500 yards and it cut out. He managed to get it going again on the key and held the revs at approx. 4000, it died within 50 yards.

It's a Lucas DPCN pump ending in 371C. Fuel filter appears clean.

We couldn't start it on the key but battery was extremely low. It appears to be original battery. Jumping it did not work. Tow bumping it did not work.

My mate at Parkinsons says I should check for solenoid click first off when key is turned. If fine, crack open one of the injector pipes on the back of the pump to see if it is pumping.

If pumping, then could have jumped a tooth (though unlikely). If not, pumping - very serious seized pump. snapped drive, etc. etc.. Not worth repairing.

Advice much appreciated. Also, shout out to anyone for replacement 2nd hand pump worst case scenario.

spider · Post by **spider** » 27 Apr 2012, 16:18

I don't have any data to hand and I cannot remember any pump codes. At 51 plate it will be either DW8 with a Lucas pump and they are not turbo (no DW8 ever had a "windmill" attached) or it could be a HDi, but assuming its not a HDi:

Stop solenoid will be under the armour on these although I was under the impression Lucas pumps would not be happy on veg for various reasons, including leakage.

Check around the pump for external leakage. I thought about the drive dog breaking but that seems unlikely, then again lack of lubrication I guess anything could happen.

I'd whip the fuel filter out to see if its not clogged as a first, easy step and replace it if in any doubt at all. Once you're happy the filter is clean, pin the flywheel and check the cam / pump pins will fit. I don't expect it will have jumped but to just check to see if the pins fit is straightforward enough.

Post by **Rhothgar** » 27 Apr 2012, 16:31

You're right. Lucas are not happy on veg. I did advise him against it.

Fuel filter looks OK.

spider · Post by **spider** » 27 Apr 2012, 17:37

And no signs of leakage from the pump itself ?

Stick the timing pin in the flywheel and check the cam / pump are OK. I'd doubt the belt has moved but...

Post by **Rhothgar** » 27 Apr 2012, 19:04

There doesn't appear to any, Spider, but I will give it the once over tomorrow, weather permitting.

I'll start with getting the battery back on and checking for supply to the back of one of the pump unions. If I'm getting any, I'll go through the motions of locking off the flywheel.

Interestingly, the other week when Sylv's ZX wouldn't start. I tried to jump start as per owner's handbook and it was having NONE OF IT! This was the same with my brother's Pug today. I had the Xant up at a steady 3000 rpm for 5 minutes and Pug was turning over reasonably quickly but soon died off.

When I changed battery on Sylv's ZX, it fired up straight away. Until last week and today also, I have NEVER experienced not being able to jump start a car. Brother's pug problem may be more serious but Sylv's ZX was simply the battery was too far gone presumably to accept charge from the jump leads. I am hoping this may be the case on his battery.

I may just bang my battery on and see what happens. His battery says Peugeot on it so we were wondering if this could still be the original battery after 10 / 11 years!!!

The Birdman · Post by **The Birdman** » 27 Apr 2012, 19:05

Filter in the fuel tank will be a mess .

Post by **Rhothgar** » 27 Apr 2012, 19:42

Good point.

I'll take a gander at that too. Is it under the rear seat as per Xantis?

The Birdman · Post by **The Birdman** » 27 Apr 2012, 20:03

Should be , if that stuff has blocked it and you clean it and it still doesn`t start then you`re looking at new fuel filter plus cleaning the injectors.

Post by **Rhothgar** » 27 Apr 2012, 23:28

Birdman.

I put my battery in it tonight and it turrns over very fast now. My brother has no idea was his original handbook is but a sign looking like a key lit up on the far right of the dash when he was cranking it and I was fiddling under the bonnet.

Has his transponder code type thingy failed? Could it just need recoding?

Post by **Rhothgar** » 28 Apr 2012, 14:35

When ignition is switched to on, there is a rapid ticking from pump solenoid area.

Should this be one loud click?

Next. No fuel is coming out of injector nearest camshaft. The only I could crack off with everything in place.

Started stripping to gain access to stop solenoid.

Here are two photos of inlet manifold!

VERY oily on two adjacent tracts.

Post by **Rhothgar** » 28 Apr 2012, 14:51

Does pump have to come off to remove armour plate or can shear studs simply be cold chiselled loose? If so, are there only two - the ones that can be seen at the top of the photo?

I can get in with a cold chisel to the one nearest the front of the car but the one at the rear looks totally inaccessible. I was thinking that I could maybe use a hand drill and drill the shear bolt heads through. Whatever happens it is going to be a drawn out job.

So I await some sage advice from those far more knowledgable than I on these matters. I'll have a search regarding removing armour plating to access solenoid. I am not in a particular rush as I am helping my brother out with this.

Should I put the armour plating back?

Can I bypass the security easily or should I reinstate it? If I reinstate, do I need to recode anything as I do not have a Lexia at present?

When I get home, I am going to upload a sound file that I recorded of the clicking that can be heard in the pump vicinity. I would have thought that a solenoid should just give one SOLID click but am not experienced in this sort of repair / diagnosis.

All advice greatly appreciated.

Post by **Rhothgar** » 28 Apr 2012, 14:56

Split in pipe!

What does this pipe do? It connects to the underside of the inlet manifold below what I assume is an air mass meter.

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Apr 2012, 19:13

That pipe is the fuel return back to the tank Roger, I believe...

Check that pipe is not blocked by concealed veg and is clear all the way back to the tank.

He's a silly-billy running it on any veg...It eventually wears the distributor head and ultimatey seizure and a sheared drive-shaft. The pump is no more than an ornament after that. On the lead-up to that, wear in the distributor head will cause poor pump efficiency and you may just be seeing this already judging by some of the symptoms.

Despite those signs, you also seem to have signs of an electrical fault.

Anyways, before getting too deeply into de-armouring, for which the pump has to come off, check electrically. The stop solenoid should not buzz. It should be one click.

There's indications of an immobiliser fault here and I'd investigate electrically before anything else. A PP2000 diagnostic session may be useful.

If you do end up de-armouring, it's not hard. All but one of the screws can be got at with a small reverse-flute socket and the one that immediately can't can be got at by sawing off a bit of the armour. Yes, do replace it afterwards.

The main armour won't come free until the side armour protecting the electronic module is removed. It's this side armour that prevents the pump being de-armoured in-sutu...

Post by **Rhothgar** » 29 Apr 2012, 19:37

I'm going to email you the sound in the region of the solenoid when I can work out how to get it off my phone.

The pipe goes into the thingy on the bottom of the inlet manifold (which I placed in the photo to show where the pipe connects - NOTE inlet manifold not in correct position!).

Do you happen to know where the wires for the solenoid exit and can I check voltage at a connector somewhere?

PP2000 comes with Lexia 3 software doesn't it? Good excuse for me to buy one.

I want to de-armour in-situ. I really do not want to remove the pump. I can remove fuel filter housing and water thermostat to gain great access.

I can't say I noticed any side-armour only the rear which I photographed (assuming rear is where the pump unions to injector pipes are?).

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Apr 2012, 19:54

In that case the pipe must be a sense pipe Roger. I can't see it causing a non-run though..

The fact you can't see the side armour is why it can't be de-armoured in-situ... The side armour is on the side nearest the engine block. Well hidden...

I got the email Roger but there's no attachment. Or at least I can't see one either on Thunderbird or Squirrelmail...

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