309 starting woes

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dollywobbler
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309 starting woes

Post by dollywobbler »

Howdy
The lovely, slightly-shabby 309 I'm trying to sell at the moment has a slight issue. It's a pain in the backside to start and often refuses altogether. Once started, it runs like a dream (as long as your dreams involve the metallic symphony that is Simca valvegear), pulls beautifully and starts from hot, or slightly cold with no problems at all. I don't think it's an ignition issue because...

Getting the choke in the correct place seems impossible. Full out, no chance. Full in, might splutter but won't start. Anywhere in between gets either. It has had a new carburettor fitted by the previous owner (yes, a brand new one!) but it has an anti-tamper screw on the mixture, so it's not like I can play with that. Plugs look and sensible colour anyway.

Any ideas? It's an astonishingly good engine apart from that. So eager for a 1.3.
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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by Peter.N. »

Not having run a petrol vehicle for about 30 years I don't know whether yours has a 'conventional' ignition circuit using a coil, if so a 6 volt one was the norm with a ballast resistor in series to run from 12 volts. The idea is that when starting the resistor is shorted out and the battery connected direct to the coil giving a good spark. If the permanent supply is through the resistor you will have a very poor spark at start. I can't remember how the resistor was shorted but I suspect by the ignition switch. Try connecting a 12v supply directly to the coil + terminal and see if it starts - assuming it has a coil of course.

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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by dollywobbler »

This is my problem. I'm used to XUDs or 2CVs when it comes to French cars! Neither are much help when it comes to this sort of thing. It's a good theory though, especially as sometimes it seems to almost catch as I release the key... The next problem is trying to find an opportune moment to test this. I'm out early in the morning (in the Pug if it'll go...) and rain is forecast. Joy.
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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by Oldpug »

I remember those Simca/Talbot Horizon engined Peugeot`s.As you say they rattle like a bag of nails but just keep on going.I would go for the simple elementary stuff.The distributor is right at the front behind the rad so the cap and leads can get contaminated.Have a look inside the cap for tracking or a burned carbon brush.A new cap/rotor and leads will not brake the bank.It has got a normal coil so make sure the tower is in good condition.When new the car had plastic covers over the coil and distributor cap but I bet they are long gone.Also that engine has adjustable ignition timing,timing mark on flywheel,hole in bell housing,one bolt to move distributor.If non of the elementary stuff works change the ignition pack,which is the small unit about the size of a credit card on the side of the distributor,two screws and a multi plug.
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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by CitroJim »

Sounds like a typical French carb choke to me :twisted: The last French petrol car with a manual choke I had was an R5 and on that thing you used to have to consult a table of tide times in the Bay of Biscay, do a calculation on a slide rule making compensations for the wind speed on the Dogger Bank and the relative humidity just off Rockall and then set the result on the choke control using a micrometer...

Seriously for a moment, check your float level, check the float is not punctured and check the float valve is not leaking. Then check for air leaks everywhere and especially on the throttle butterfly spindle.

That 309 is late to have a Simca engine :shock: Is it the old gearbox in sump 'Suitcase' engine?
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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by dollywobbler »

Funnily enough, I've never managed to find the timing mark on the flywheel. Borrowed a strobe and couldn't see 'owt, even when I finally worked out that Number 1 cylinder is actually flywheel end. (oops)

Covers are indeed long gone, and the HT leads are a right mix - probably each one is for a different car. Dizzy cap looks good. Once the cold start is achieved, it doesn't misfire at all.

Jim - it certainly feels like your old Renault 5. I have squirted WD around to see if it's drawing air in anywhere. It doesn't seem to be.

It is one of the last to have the Simca engine. It's entirely unrelated to the suitcase engine and is actually an enlarged version of the Simca 1000 engine from 30 years earlier!
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Re: 309 starting woes

Post by dollywobbler »

Well, it started pretty much fine this morning. A routine which seems to work is zero throttle, zero choke. Start, it'll not quite catch and splutter. Pull choke out about one third, start and it'll catch and be fine. It's an odd starting routine but I shall see if it continues to work!
1986 Citroen 2CV6
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