HHO generator

tobsta · Post by **tobsta** » 20 Jul 2011, 18:41

Hey peeps, I've been roaming around the net trying to find ways of saving money and while youtubing i came across a neat idea.

A lot of people are using hydrogen fuel cells in there cars, Most of them claim that there mpg has gone up by 30%

Just wondering if anyone on here has any experience in these puppies. They look pretty simple to build.

Any help or ideas would be great.

Cheers.

addo · Post by **addo** » 20 Jul 2011, 21:31

I'd suggest a lot of the fuel mileage improvement is due to a subconscious change in driving style, or extraneous factors like a change in tyre pressure.

From an engineering/physics viewpoint there is definitely no free lunch; the energy required to "generate" combustible gases exceeds energy produced.

The two devices which seem to work at less-than-full-throttle are water injection - although this appears most successful on older carbureted cars which are probably running rich to begin with - and turbulating intake tract devices placed immediately before the throttle body. In this latter instance it seems there is just enough additional disturbance of laminar flow to improve the induction. It's a miniscule impact, though.

Post by **CitroJim** » 20 Jul 2011, 21:43

addo wrote:and turbulating intake tract devices placed immediately before the throttle body.

What a lovely name for a little windmill...

Years back you could get loads and loads of fuel economy devices and all of them have been largely found to only improve the economies of the sellers of the devices....

They're all Snake Oil and as you say, the best route to economy is to learn to drive economically. Replacing those lead boots with ones made of feathers is a good start...

addo · Post by **addo** » 20 Jul 2011, 21:47

What bothers me about them, is from what I've read they have been shown to work.

Not anywhere so near well as inferred, and definitely not in heavy throttle usage - but in the conditions outlined - yes; enough independent testing has shown their slight benefit.

Out of manly pride, I'd not fit one though.

tobsta · Post by **tobsta** » 20 Jul 2011, 22:29

hmmm interesting.. not sure if i understand most of what your explaining though, Big words way over my head

But hey i will go ahead a try to construct one in my test lab (bedroom). I have a large glass jar full of pickled gerkins that i'll never eat. So i was thinking of using 2 stainless steel fish slices for my anode and cathode.
Probably use my 12v charger to fire it up.

Lets hope i don't blow myself up.

Post by **CitroJim** » 20 Jul 2011, 22:53

tobsta wrote: I have a large glass jar full of pickled gerkins that i'll never eat.

Maybe you'd be better off with a jar of pickled eggs...

(See this thread for a partial explanation)

addo · Post by **addo** » 20 Jul 2011, 23:08

Good idea; methane is a proven fuel source.

But I am slightly offended on the gherkins' behalf. Sliced lengthways, they go well on a burger.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 21 Jul 2011, 11:35

good hangover cure I was informed last week too

tobsta · Post by **tobsta** » 31 Aug 2011, 11:48

Well cheers guys for your helpfull input about this project of mine.

Anyway i have been spending some time on this and one or two explosions later i made this.

The jar has 4 stainless steel spatulas wired + N N - filled with tap water and half teaspoon of Baking soda. While leaving it running for well over an hour it only pulls about 2/3 amps.
So the gas goes through a bubbler then theres a safety flashback arrestor.

marty1979 · Post by **marty1979** » 31 Aug 2011, 13:28

Not bad for a first try. A few things that I notice from your setup though. Firstly, the spacing between the plates are too wide, you want as close to 1mm as you can get without the plates touching, that way you need less electrolyte. Also, bicarbonate of soda turns the water brown, it basicly leaches the iron from the metal even though it's stainless, happens with 304 and 316 in my experience, I use sodium hydroxide. A little tip for you here, as the plates are all in the same bath of electrolyte the current will try to jump around your neutral plates instead of going through them, this will raise your amperage and heat and it will cause a runaway effectt that just gets worse the longer the unit is powered. Wrap an old bike innertube around the cell and it will raise the efficiency of the cell by a lot, you can then raise the elecrolyte concentration and get more gas for more or less the same current draw. Great job

tobsta · Post by **tobsta** » 31 Aug 2011, 17:41

Thanks marty1979 for your advice. At the moment the plates have a 2.5mm gap between them as there held together by 4 nylon bolts with the nuts separating them.

Yes your right about the water turning brown from bicarb soda. So you recommend sodium hydroxide.. I'll have to look out for some.

Not sure about the innertube idea though.. Do i wrap it around the jar or the plates themselves?? How would that have an effect?

I installed it into the car today, Its not wired up yet but i will connect it to the ciggy lighter with a switch so only live when the ignition is on.

Any ideas where on the air intake i should put it?

marty1979 · Post by **marty1979** » 31 Aug 2011, 20:07

The innertube isolates the edges of the plates, so instead of the electricity taking the path of least resistance, as it does, and bypassing your neutrals and heading straight for the other powered plate, it will have no choice but to pass throught the neutral plates between the anode and cathode which will infact turn the neutral plates into active plates, which will give you more gas

Insert the cell stack into the innertube just so the top and bottom is open to allow the water to be drawn in from the bottom and gas out the top, I hope that makes sense? As for where to inject the gas, I aways put a fitting as close to the inlet manifold as possible, always saw better gains this way, but it is a bit harder as this usually means hacking the intake pipe, maybe the airbox would be better as it's a lot easier to repair if you need to. Don't be tempted to use a vaccum pipe to suck the gas in, water boils at a lower temp when under vac and you will boil the cell, good old days

tobsta · Post by **tobsta** » 01 Sep 2011, 15:27

I just looked up Sodium Hydroxide and its basicly Caustic soda or drain cleaner.

After youtubing it i see it's very dangerous around aluminium and water. Booooom!

What will it be like in the cell?

Post by **myglaren** » 01 Sep 2011, 17:01

You only need a very dilute solution.

Do keep it away from aluminumun though and dissolve a small amount in water at a time or it will boil and spatter - you may be able to buy it dilute from a pharmacy but I couldn't say what strength you are likely to need.

mark2256 · Post by **mark2256** » 03 Jun 2017, 23:52

I have just fitted a Hydrogen Fuel Cell in my 2006 Citroen C5 1.6 HDI. It is a cell I made my self from 316 stainless steel it has 13 plates (1 positive, 2 negative and 10 nutral plates). The rest of the system consists of a 1.5 Litre header tank, a bubbler, 30amp fuse and relay the relay is switched through the ignition switch with a 7.5amp fuse inline.

The catalyst that should be used is Sodium Hydroxide in deironized water. The mix I am using is 2 level 5ml medicine spoons in 1 litre of water this means I am running it at about 9 amps.

After installation I took the car for a test drive the car runs much smoother it pulls better and the fuel economy has almost doubled. The test drive was stop/start along Eastbourne Sea Front

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HHO generator

HHO generator

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