Mi16 Calipers

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evilally
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 11 Jun 2010, 00:09

I see 405 Mi16 brake calipers are readily available on the likes of ebay. As far as I can tell, the Mi16 uses 266mm vented discs, just like mine. The pads also look the same. I've always felt the brakes on my 405 weren't that great, although the lines, discs (Brembo), pads (Greenstuff), shoes, drums and fluid are all new.

Could I swap out the front calipers, and would it give better braking performance? They look a bit bigger, would they fit behind a 14" wheel?

I was also pondering fitting a new master cyclinder as they aren't expensive, is this worth while, and are there any better ones from another PSA car I could use?

evilally
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 11 Jun 2010, 00:21

Doing a bit more research on servicebox!

Both the Mk1 and Mk2 Mi16 have the same disc offset and use the same caliper bracket as my TD, but the calipers themselves are indeed different. Some Mi16's also had 14" wheels so presumably they will fit behind my wheels. So the only question would be is it a worthwhile upgrade?

addo
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by addo » 11 Jun 2010, 05:53

Brembo's aftermarket catalogue has a function where you can look up discs by inputting various critical dimensions, such as the number of wheel bolts or centre thickness. This might flag the biggest rotors you could fit.

I'm about to fit Goodridge hoses to a non-ABS Mi16 (with the original flex lines from May 1990 at present!) - it currently brakes passably but is hard to lock up. If it gets better, I'll have a decent means to A:B with Xantia brakes.

Gut feeling is you won't notice much difference with a different caliper on the same rotor. 205ers seem to be mixing a bunch of stuff including late model master cylinders to get a good balance of application pressure and fade resistance. Not sure how the newer master cylinders would take to being stood on end.

evilally
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 11 Jun 2010, 09:47

Thanks addo, I don't want to move up in rotor size, as I would then have to move up to a 15" wheel. Appart from having 4 new tyres recently fitted, bigger wheels are heavier.

I notice theres a 22mm master cylinder available for the 405 for cars with ABS. Could this be fitted to a non-ABS car, and would it perform better?

I fitted braised lines to my Clio. No significant difference under normal driving, but it did give improved fade resistance when pushing very hard.

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Mi16 Calipers

Post by addo » 11 Jun 2010, 12:45

If the ABS car uses the same booster, then the master oughta be a direct fit.

My use of braided lines was a simple choice - cost! New hoses would have been far dearer locally in rubber than the Goodridge set; about two and a half times the price. Plus on the lockup test we use a mate's driveway for, only one wheel skidded. So it's either duff hoses or caliper issues (guide pins binding or sticky seals). I suppose if the cost of any rebuilt caliper is considered, the bigger ones are better value.

FWIW my car has the "Series 1.5" features including 15" alloys and it only feels heavy due to wear/tracking problems - you don't get the impression wheel masses are excessive for the geometry and steering ratio. Reckon by the time it's all rebushed and rejointed, the car should be nimbler in the corners than my Xantia (whereas presently it's slower but feels faster because it judders all over the road)... Brakes aren't the thing I'm feeling for, when it starts doing this!

Cheers, Adam.

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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 11 Jun 2010, 13:00

Yes, I recently put on new ARB and wishbone bushes along with new drop links and lower ball joints, made the car a lot tighter. Unfortunately I still have a big heavy diesel engine at the front, I would love a shot in an Mi16 some time!

addo
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by addo » 12 Jun 2010, 01:39

I guess there's one question you raised, which I failed to directly answer - the Series 1 Mi16 ran 14" alloys. So calipers will fit if they didn't change in early 1990.

As a side note, the Mi16 also uses a different ratio steering rack. I'm told a worn ram eye bush is responsible for some of the vagueness/hesitancy in PAS response.
I would love a shot in an Mi16 some time!
It's a car that makes you feel licenced to do all the things you normally disapprove of other drivers doing! Sort of a French BMW... :roll: Drive it like riding a bike; tight into the corners and finishing wide while sinking the boot in second or third. I hit the rev limiter quite often (about 7200 by the tacho) in the first two gears. Undergeared for long motorway journeys IMO (GTi6 better choice) but excellent for recreational blats. The heavy clutch reminds me I'm not getting any younger, after a day or two in cross-city traffic.

(Have I convinced you to sell the diesel and buy an Mi16 yet? :lol: )

evilally
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 12 Jun 2010, 12:03

Thanks addo, no the old bird won't be going anywhere. I don't need (another) gas guzzler to run!

I think I'll start by getting a brand new 22mm master cylinder to replace my probably tired 20mm one.

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Mi16 Calipers

Post by addo » 14 Jul 2010, 21:31

I've been troubleshooting recently, and one test involved blanking off the rear brakes altogether.

Fronts then lock up brilliantly with a solid feel. I reckon if whatever drag is in these calipers due to sticky bores/slides was not there, they'd be dynamite!

(Of course, the down side is I demonstrably have a problem somewhere in the rear brakes...)

evilally
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by evilally » 14 Jul 2010, 22:13

Funny you mention rear brakes. The shoe adjusters that came with the car when I bought it were missing their locking tab, so were free to wind back. I swapped these out for a pattern part rear brake kit which included new adjusters. I concluded these were crap, so went down to the scrap yard and managed to get a pair of working Peugeot adjusters. I fitted these at the weekend and for the first time have managed to adjust up the rear brakes properly. What a difference! The pedal is much firmer and the brakes feel far more confident.

I hate drums, if I ever have a reason to get a refurbed rear beam, it's going to be one with calipers and discs.

Have you tried cleaning up/regreasing the pins and bleading the rears?

addo
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Mi16 Calipers

Post by addo » 15 Jul 2010, 01:38

Originally, I planned to just replace the flex lines (Goodridge) and bleed it all through.

Trouble was, the rear proportioning valve seems stuck, probably due to my offside rear short flex (the upper 6" length) having internal failure and being blocked.

Means I can't bleed it through, and adding complexity the calipers don't retract easily as they should (hoping to see the caliper tool set this week!). Plan to order a couple of caliper kits at about £35 delivered - the car was stood for several years until April '09, so there's some risk of caliper bore corrosion.

Will post up again once the rears are sorted - just seeing what the fronts can do, restored some hope!

Cheers, Adam.