306 1.4 petrol manual gearbox trouble

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Nuneatonrob
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306 1.4 petrol manual gearbox trouble

Post by Nuneatonrob »

Hello,

It's been some time, as my own Xsara has been performing brilliantly for quite some time now, so no need to post about that. Saying that I have probably jinxed myself now!

Anywho, I have undertaken a job of repairing a none driving 306, due to a suspected gearbox fault.

It is a bit puzzling, as at first i thought it could be the inner CV joint on the drivers side that has failed, as the car would go to move in all the gears including reverse, sometimes actually move under it's own power then sort of pop and grumble underneath sending a lot of vibration through steering wheel and lose drive.

Anyway, I have removed the O/S drive shaft and the inner joint is not in good shape, small metal fragments and no grease owing to a dislodged CV boot, but intact as far as i can see and not excessivly worn, but on draining the oil from the box, found a large amount of metal debris and swarf, some bits of a fair size, but nothing 'massive' as such.

Question is, does anyone think this sounds like the final drive or diff that has failed? The vehicle would go through all the gears without to much noise in the air, but when i raised just the drivers side, and went through the gears, there was more clunking, raising just the passenger side, the wheel would spin normally in all gears.

Need some ideas asap so I can ether source a box cheaply, or just carry on and replace the O/S drive shaft and hope for the best....HELP!!

Thanks in advance,

Rob
'99 Xsara HDI SX 90
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Rob, great news on the Xsara :D Shhh though, they have ears :wink:

Now, this gearbox. For all drive to be lost under the circumstances you describe, the CV joint would have to be so wrecked that it would be able to rotate between its two havles under any sort of load and this, with a normal tri-ax joint means it would really have to be wrecked; possibly a lot more than it is from your description.

It's not unusual for an MA gearbox to offer up bits of themselves when they have their oil drained. I recall an MA that dropped two large ball bearings out but still soldiered on with only an occasional jump out of second the signify it was not entirely content with its lot.

Do give the CV joints a very thorough check and pay particular attention to the splines on the inner CV joint and the mating splines in the gearbox final drive. It's not unknown for them to strip themselves smooth. This could happen if the CV joint which is known to be dodgy locked up and applied excessive force to the final drive.

Next up is, as you say, an internal gearbox fault. This could be a diff fault and the more likely is that the roll pin that holds the differential planetary gearset axle in place has let go and the gearset is displaced, damaged and collapsed. If this has happened, there wll be some interesting damage in the final drive. If this happens at speed, the gearset usually breaks up and exits through the side of the 'box!

Given how common these gearboxes are, it's likely the best option if the CV joints do not account for the symptoms, is to obtain another one from a scrapper. Just take care to get the right one... Alternatively, they're not a difficult 'box to crack apart and rebuild.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Post by Nuneatonrob »

Oh Jim, I knew you would come to the rescue!! thank you!

Right, I think from what you have said then, that the gearbox is at fault. The drive shaft and particularly the inner CV joint look at a glance to be ok, but put them together and it does not sound happy, or move about very freely, but, i agree, i don't think now that this would be sufficient to cause a intermitant loss of drive.

Now, back to the box...what box is it for this model car...it's 2000 W reg 1.4 petrol. I think, can't be 100%, but think I recall seeing BE3 on the final drive housing underneath....but apparently they have two arms, or one arm???

Again I think it has two arms, as in it's cable select and has two points at which selector cables attach to it?

I need to find out which one by looking properly later, but I am keen to start trying to source the box, so if you could confidently say what should be fitted to that car, then I can look for one, if you follow. Unfortunately, the shackles of the day job prevent me from looking at the car now!!!

Oh and another thing....do not bother using www.pugcitspares.co.uk as they are useless. I ordered the drive shaft Monday, told me it would be with me Wednesday, called today to find out where it is, and they told me it would be with me tomorrow now, after i had to call 3 times because they kept putting the phone down on me...yet they have taken my money without delay!!! Not happy with that type of service.



Thanks again Jim,

Rob
'99 Xsara HDI SX 90
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Post by RichardW »

Pretty sure the 1.4 uses the MA box as Jim says. Also pretty sure this box is well known for lunching the final drive, and therefore finding a decent 2nd hand replacement might not be that easy - in its favour, they must have built billions of the things though..... :lol:
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Post by Nuneatonrob »

OK, thanks Richard. I guess I need to have a look at the box to find out if it has 1 or 2 linkages...or 3 now as one scrap guy said!!??

It's not good for the guy who's car it is. It's only covered 65k and is on it's 2nd gearbox, soon to be 3rd. The last one managing 30k before giving up!

So, I am going to check it out later, and go on a proper hunt for one over the weekend.

Did they fit the gearbox that is in this car (Wreg 2000 year 1.4 petrol 306) to any other cars? i guess a Xsara would have it, but just wondering about smaller pugs and Cit's like 106 and Saxo to help my search?


Thanks again for all the help so far guys. It's good to be back!!

Rob
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Post by CitroJim »

Rob,

As far as I can tell and as Richard confirms, all the TU engined vehicles use the MA gearbox. I could only directly check the Xsara equivilents to the 306 as I don't have the same Pug information or access to Servicebox.

The cable change confuses me though :?

The MA and BE3/4 do look quite similar at first glance although a direct comparason between your Xsara (which as the BE4) and the 306 in question will show the difference. One significant difference between the BE and MA is that on the BE the final drive can be unbolted and removed without needing to dismantle the 'box. This is not the case on the MA, the final drive castings being integral with the main gear cluster castings.
Jim

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Post by CitroJim »

Rob, sorry, I saw your last post after sending off my last missive.

Yes, the equivilent Xsara will have the same 'box but it's likely the Saxo and 106 will have a 'box with different ratios.
Jim

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Post by Nuneatonrob »

Jim, I think you have hit the nail on the head there...I am 99.99% sure that it is the MA then, as I looked to see if i could remove the final drive with box in situ, and from what i could see, it appeared to be in the casing for the rest of the box so to speak, so would require removing the box then spiliting the box in it's completely to get the final drive out.....Maybe i was seeing things with the BE3 i thought I 'saw' on the box then...lol.

I think to be sure i need to have a proper look at the box!!

I would like to strip and repair, but i don't have the time, it's not my car, and i don't have a clean garage/workshop. The car is next to my house in the open!


Brilliant info so far chaps...thanks so much!!

I'll report back,

Rob
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Post by citronut »

try PCR of lancing weast sussex they do a mail order service and they are citro/pug specialist dismantlers


http://www.pcrpeugeotandcitroen.co.uk/

regards malcolm
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Post by Nuneatonrob »

Just to let you know it's all sorted now.

I have replaced the gearbox and drive shafts, and all is well. Apart from the mission is was getting the drive shaft from a certain online supplier...see the citroen forum for a warning of the company.

I am going to open the old box up and have a look inside to see what happened to it. When I have found out, i'll post back.

I am tempted to repair it to be honest, just as a practice. That is if i can find the time!.

Thanks to those that helped. Much appreciated as always.

All the best,

Rob
'99 Xsara HDI SX 90
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