1.9 td non start - Pump ECU?

Mabbs01 · Post by **Mabbs01** » 08 Jul 2009, 14:37

I have an old (205k) Pug 406 1.9 td with an ecu controlled fuel pump (for timing). My problem is complete failure of the engine whilst driving, clouds of black and then grey smoke, and then it completely stopped. It wants to fire (has recently been serviced with new glow pugs and filters), but to no avail. I have read that failure of needle valve senso on the seconfd injector causes this or the tdc sensor. The latter was replaced recently, but I have noticed a diesel leak from the injector, is this likely to cause the sensor to give the ECU a wrong message and consequently set the timing incorrectly?

Other than the typical slow starting of these 1.9 td the unit was running very well with excellent fuel economy until this problem. Is the pump likely tyo have failed completely at this mileage - a friend said it was a Bosch type and very reliable!

Any suggestions, or methods of diagnosis would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Richard

Post by **CitroJim** » 08 Jul 2009, 15:20

Hi Richard, welcome to the forum

The symptoms suggest that it's not the pump. Cliouds of black smoke followed by grey suggests something ahs let go and the greay smoke particularly suggests that fuel is only being partially burned or not at all.

When you crank it, can you see grey/white smoke from the exhaust? If so then the pump is working to a degree but the fuel is not being burned. Also smell for a paraffin-like smell from the exhaust during cranking. This is another sign of incomplete combustion.

If you do see white/'grey smoke during cranking, this may be as a result of a loss of compression. I'd be initially checking the timing belt to ensure it has not jumped a few teeth for some reason. Was the episode accompanied by any unusual noises?

The failure of the Needle Lift Sensor on No.3 injector will not cause a non-start, just a really rough running and smoky engine with no go.

I have seen a similar problem to yours where the pump timing servo piston failed and jammed the pump into a fully retarded state but it still struggled into life.

Have you, by any chance, been running on anything other than diesel? I ask as I have seen cars running alternative fuels completely block their fuel pickup strainer and their fuel return lines. This too could cause your symptoms, along with a blocked fuel filter.

Mabbs01 · Post by **Mabbs01** » 08 Jul 2009, 22:42

thanks for the advice.

I will check tomorrow, funnily enough it has the same symptoms as when it broke down last time - which was the timing belt having slipped a tooth due to the aux drive belt snapping - only 6k miles ago.

So it is possible that the tensioner has failed and cambelt has slipped. Straight diesel from garages is what I have used. I will investigate further tomorrow

Richard

Mabbs01 · Post by **Mabbs01** » 28 Aug 2009, 00:35

turned out to be the head gasket!

What's the easiest way to disconnect the piping from the inlet manifold? - managed the turbo pipe from underneath the car. In typical Haynes fashion when the task is awkward its especially brief, and hence useless!

Rochard

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Aug 2009, 08:32

Shame it turned out to be the head gasket

How did you arrive at that diagnosis?

Do you mean the EGR concertina piping Richard?

If so, its a bit tricky. Basically, spring off the clip at the inlet manifold end and then, as you lift the inlet manifold off, you can lift it around the concertina pipe and it will come free. Don't disconnect the pipe at the EGR valve end.

I find a pointed object best for unclipping these clips. This picture is of a 2.1TD EGR pipe but the principle remains the same.

We all know and love Haynes manuals on here. That's why we call them the BoL (Book of Lies)

Mabbs01 · Post by **Mabbs01** » 28 Aug 2009, 12:05

Ok will try that way, and let you know!

Basically water and oil leaking everywhere when I turned the car over, and water leaking from the back of the head when I filled up the dried out header tank!

Richard

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Aug 2009, 12:28

Mabbs01 wrote:Basically water and oil leaking everywhere when I turned the car over, and water leaking from the back of the head when I filled up the dried out header tank!

Ahh, that's pretty conclusive then Richard

Lawrence1973 · Post by **Lawrence1973** » 30 Aug 2009, 20:10

Hello Richard,
I was in a similar situation recently and it turned out not to be the head gasket but something more sinister! check out the thread about the engine swap I did.

Hopefully some helpful advice for you......

Have you removed the turbo black plastic pipes yet? I wasn't sure if that what you meant by the pipes from underneath/turbo.

Yes, the haynes manual is awful - worst one I've seen. The inlet manifold itself is very difficult to access. The worst is the bolt right in the centre at the bottom. You can get all the others with tremendous amounts of patience and all the socket extensions and sizes you can imagine.....I can't remember now if they are allen bolts or ordinary hexagonal heads.

I strongly recommend that you carefully support the engine and remove the left hand mounting, this allows you to budge the engine forward a bit and offer loads more room. You have to do this anyway to get the head off by removing the left hand engine mounting. There's a stud that goes from the head into the mounting bracket.

One of the plastic turbo pipes is bolted to the inlet manifold very cunningly! at the left hand end, If you haven't already seen it.

As Jim says, the EGR pipe work has to be dis connected. I didn't find it very easy to get to the clip on this engine so turned my attentions to the the two small allen bolts holding the pipe together. It comes apart at this point with a small gasket in between.

Hope that helps

Lawrence