I am at my wits end with the 106 I bought my daughter!
To cut a long story short, I found the thermostat had failed (even though I was told the car was a good runner!) and came to the conclusion that the head gasket had gone as well because of this (lots of little bubbles in the expansion tank)
So I changed the head gasket, thermostat, flushed the whole system and radiator too etc etc. Refilled and bled the system (using a header tank) but have noticed that even though everything runs lovely, and that the engine purrs like the best diesel engine I've ever heard, the system is still pressurising again and squirting coolant out a bit from the expansion tank.
What am I missing here???????
Is this the hardest engine to bleed in the whole world or is it still the head? There are bubbles again in the expansion tank but not small ones like before, they're intermittent and quite huge when they pop up.....but they don't stop like I thought they would if the engine was purging itself.
I'm out of ideas..........HELP.
106 1.4D cooling system pressurising
Moderator: RichardW
106 1.4D cooling system pressurising
Saxo 1.5 XD 1998
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
Starts nicely and runs sweet as a nut ?
Hard to imagine you would have serious problems then.
My pennies ....
1) you cant really test for HG leaks if engine is running hot. Because after even a short period of rev'ing the engine, there will be hot spots in the cylinder head causing the coolant to boil when the pressure cap is removed. Hot spot boiling looks exactly like heavy air bubbles. Note that the pressure cap raises the boiling temp considerably - exactly to avoid this problem. Check with a new pressure cap. Standard pressures are 1.2bar, but check careful with the 106 specs as it may differ.
2) check that the radiator gets evenly hot all over after warming up of engine - indicated by the fan turning on. Check also the lower coolant hose running back to the engine & coolant pump is getting almost as hot as the top hose. This indicates there is flow in the cooling system.
3) you are aware that the coolant filler neck must have spare room for approx ½ a liter of coolant (system cold) - once the system has settled ?
4) on many engines as well as on TU/XU it is possible to turn around the thermostat making it fit incorrectly. This will in most cases cause the engine to overheat, overpressure the coolant and press it out. The thermostat clearly has a wax cylinder - a small brass or stainless steel lump - which must locate nearest to the engine hot side of the coolant. I.e. opposite direction of the top hose leading to the radiator.
There are of course possibilities that the head is cracked ...
This can be tested in situ by applying pressurised air to the glowplug holes - while engine is cold and stopped. The glowplughole causing air bubbles in the coolant filler neck tells the tale ...
Opposite : if no glowplugholes tells such a tale, then be happy and continue looking for any simple problem.
Kinked hoses anywhere ?
Hard to imagine you would have serious problems then.
My pennies ....
1) you cant really test for HG leaks if engine is running hot. Because after even a short period of rev'ing the engine, there will be hot spots in the cylinder head causing the coolant to boil when the pressure cap is removed. Hot spot boiling looks exactly like heavy air bubbles. Note that the pressure cap raises the boiling temp considerably - exactly to avoid this problem. Check with a new pressure cap. Standard pressures are 1.2bar, but check careful with the 106 specs as it may differ.
2) check that the radiator gets evenly hot all over after warming up of engine - indicated by the fan turning on. Check also the lower coolant hose running back to the engine & coolant pump is getting almost as hot as the top hose. This indicates there is flow in the cooling system.
3) you are aware that the coolant filler neck must have spare room for approx ½ a liter of coolant (system cold) - once the system has settled ?
4) on many engines as well as on TU/XU it is possible to turn around the thermostat making it fit incorrectly. This will in most cases cause the engine to overheat, overpressure the coolant and press it out. The thermostat clearly has a wax cylinder - a small brass or stainless steel lump - which must locate nearest to the engine hot side of the coolant. I.e. opposite direction of the top hose leading to the radiator.
There are of course possibilities that the head is cracked ...
This can be tested in situ by applying pressurised air to the glowplug holes - while engine is cold and stopped. The glowplughole causing air bubbles in the coolant filler neck tells the tale ...
Opposite : if no glowplugholes tells such a tale, then be happy and continue looking for any simple problem.
Kinked hoses anywhere ?
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Thanks for the quick reply.
The radiator takes a real while to get hot and is not evenly hot, very cool at bottom and bottom hose.
Does that mean I've fitted the stat wrong way round? It does open (it's brand new) as the top hose goes hot eventually but if fitted wrong way roundwould this slow the flow to the radiator????
The radiator takes a real while to get hot and is not evenly hot, very cool at bottom and bottom hose.
Does that mean I've fitted the stat wrong way round? It does open (it's brand new) as the top hose goes hot eventually but if fitted wrong way roundwould this slow the flow to the radiator????
AndersDK wrote:Starts nicely and runs sweet as a nut ?
Hard to imagine you would have serious problems then.
My pennies ....
1) you cant really test for HG leaks if engine is running hot. Because after even a short period of rev'ing the engine, there will be hot spots in the cylinder head causing the coolant to boil when the pressure cap is removed. Hot spot boiling looks exactly like heavy air bubbles. Note that the pressure cap raises the boiling temp considerably - exactly to avoid this problem. Check with a new pressure cap. Standard pressures are 1.2bar, but check careful with the 106 specs as it may differ.
2) check that the radiator gets evenly hot all over after warming up of engine - indicated by the fan turning on. Check also the lower coolant hose running back to the engine & coolant pump is getting almost as hot as the top hose. This indicates there is flow in the cooling system.
3) you are aware that the coolant filler neck must have spare room for approx ½ a liter of coolant (system cold) - once the system has settled ?
4) on many engines as well as on TU/XU it is possible to turn around the thermostat making it fit incorrectly. This will in most cases cause the engine to overheat, overpressure the coolant and press it out. The thermostat clearly has a wax cylinder - a small brass or stainless steel lump - which must locate nearest to the engine hot side of the coolant. I.e. opposite direction of the top hose leading to the radiator.
There are of course possibilities that the head is cracked ...
This can be tested in situ by applying pressurised air to the glowplug holes - while engine is cold and stopped. The glowplughole causing air bubbles in the coolant filler neck tells the tale ...
Opposite : if no glowplugholes tells such a tale, then be happy and continue looking for any simple problem.
Kinked hoses anywhere ?
Saxo 1.5 XD 1998
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
Just a quick update...... I have checked the thermostat I fitted and it is the right way round.
So what would cause this bad flow through the radiator?
I did back flush it before refilling.
Also, the fan doesn't cut in either and I guess this is to do with the bad flow as I also fitted a new radiator fan switch when I did the rest so know the switch works.
So what would cause this bad flow through the radiator?
I did back flush it before refilling.
Also, the fan doesn't cut in either and I guess this is to do with the bad flow as I also fitted a new radiator fan switch when I did the rest so know the switch works.
SimonT wrote:Thanks for the quick reply.
The radiator takes a real while to get hot and is not evenly hot, very cool at bottom and bottom hose.
Does that mean I've fitted the stat wrong way round? It does open (it's brand new) as the top hose goes hot eventually but if fitted wrong way roundwould this slow the flow to the radiator????
AndersDK wrote:Starts nicely and runs sweet as a nut ?
Hard to imagine you would have serious problems then.
My pennies ....
1) you cant really test for HG leaks if engine is running hot. Because after even a short period of rev'ing the engine, there will be hot spots in the cylinder head causing the coolant to boil when the pressure cap is removed. Hot spot boiling looks exactly like heavy air bubbles. Note that the pressure cap raises the boiling temp considerably - exactly to avoid this problem. Check with a new pressure cap. Standard pressures are 1.2bar, but check careful with the 106 specs as it may differ.
2) check that the radiator gets evenly hot all over after warming up of engine - indicated by the fan turning on. Check also the lower coolant hose running back to the engine & coolant pump is getting almost as hot as the top hose. This indicates there is flow in the cooling system.
3) you are aware that the coolant filler neck must have spare room for approx ½ a liter of coolant (system cold) - once the system has settled ?
4) on many engines as well as on TU/XU it is possible to turn around the thermostat making it fit incorrectly. This will in most cases cause the engine to overheat, overpressure the coolant and press it out. The thermostat clearly has a wax cylinder - a small brass or stainless steel lump - which must locate nearest to the engine hot side of the coolant. I.e. opposite direction of the top hose leading to the radiator.
There are of course possibilities that the head is cracked ...
This can be tested in situ by applying pressurised air to the glowplug holes - while engine is cold and stopped. The glowplughole causing air bubbles in the coolant filler neck tells the tale ...
Opposite : if no glowplugholes tells such a tale, then be happy and continue looking for any simple problem.
Kinked hoses anywhere ?
Saxo 1.5 XD 1998
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
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fastandfurryous
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Your concens over the rad not getting hot and the fan not cutting in are easily answered.
The 1360TUD engine used so little fuel when idling, and hence generates so little heat that the rad never actually gets hot enough for the fans to cut in.
I've left a 106 1.4D idling for 2 hours before now, with the interior heater on, and it kept the engine cold (OK, not COLD cold, but not hot). Switched the heater to off, and even then it took another 20 minutes for the thermostat to open. Thereafter there was enough cooling simply from the flow of water through the hoses/rad etc to keep the engine below fan cut-in temperature.
If you're still getting great blobs of air out through the header tank, then it still needs more bleeding. This engine is a bastard to bleed properly, and can take several attempts to get all the air out. I found the best thing to do is to fill it up as best you can, then hold the engine at 2500rpm for a moment. undo the cap, and a big blob of air will come out. Fill up with a bit more water, and do the same again. Eventually, no more air comes out. Does take forever though.
The 1360TUD engine used so little fuel when idling, and hence generates so little heat that the rad never actually gets hot enough for the fans to cut in.
I've left a 106 1.4D idling for 2 hours before now, with the interior heater on, and it kept the engine cold (OK, not COLD cold, but not hot). Switched the heater to off, and even then it took another 20 minutes for the thermostat to open. Thereafter there was enough cooling simply from the flow of water through the hoses/rad etc to keep the engine below fan cut-in temperature.
If you're still getting great blobs of air out through the header tank, then it still needs more bleeding. This engine is a bastard to bleed properly, and can take several attempts to get all the air out. I found the best thing to do is to fill it up as best you can, then hold the engine at 2500rpm for a moment. undo the cap, and a big blob of air will come out. Fill up with a bit more water, and do the same again. Eventually, no more air comes out. Does take forever though.
This is not a signature.
I had exactly the same problem on my old Pug 106 1.4d too, turned out the head gasket was kerput on it, my symptoms were that all the water would disappear somewhere, or be burned off, and the coolant expansion tank would become pressurised enough for the cap to pop.
I eventually scrapped it as it was taking space in the drive.
My advice would be to do a compression test to see if the head gasket seals well.
When the engine was running and driving the car, it was a really good engine, slow but cheap as chips to run, if the car is in good condition then persevere, mine was falling appart.
I wouldn't buy one again though. But still, it served me well at the time.
Good luck
I eventually scrapped it as it was taking space in the drive.
My advice would be to do a compression test to see if the head gasket seals well.
When the engine was running and driving the car, it was a really good engine, slow but cheap as chips to run, if the car is in good condition then persevere, mine was falling appart.
I wouldn't buy one again though. But still, it served me well at the time.
Good luck
Thanks guys.
Well I've acted on all your advice. Looks like it's still the head or something even though it's been regasketed, it's well bubbling even from cold. I want to scrap the car in one way but my daughter loves it (it's her first car) and I've spent so much time and hard earned money doing alsorts of little bits it's such a shame to get rid of it.
So I'm going to try something in the hope that it will be a "temporary" repair of the head.
I've seen some liquid you add to the coolant that will seal a head gasket leak or any leak for that matter up to 0.75mm. It sounds like a extreme version of radweld to me but the manufacturers say it works in a permanent way although I'm not too sure.
If it lasts a few months then this will be worth it as I have no more money to spend on the car.
I'll let you know how it goes
Well I've acted on all your advice. Looks like it's still the head or something even though it's been regasketed, it's well bubbling even from cold. I want to scrap the car in one way but my daughter loves it (it's her first car) and I've spent so much time and hard earned money doing alsorts of little bits it's such a shame to get rid of it.
So I'm going to try something in the hope that it will be a "temporary" repair of the head.
I've seen some liquid you add to the coolant that will seal a head gasket leak or any leak for that matter up to 0.75mm. It sounds like a extreme version of radweld to me but the manufacturers say it works in a permanent way although I'm not too sure.
If it lasts a few months then this will be worth it as I have no more money to spend on the car.
I'll let you know how it goes
Saxo 1.5 XD 1998
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)
(previously owned Xantia 1.9 TD sx 1995)