405 rough/non running IT LIVES AGAIN

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OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

The fuel lines are pretty new and seem fine, I already have a clear filter bulb in the line and the fuel looks OK to the eye, so I am reasonable sure its not the fuel lines breaking up.
The lines that were on the car when I bought it were in a pretty bad state so they have been replaced with high pressure competition grade steel overbraided hose.

The new filter was a Champion and I think the old one was as well but can't remember for certain. I might well have a look at an original spec one though. Out of interest does anyone know what filters GSF supply?

On another inspection tonight the other smell from the filter MIGHT be petrol, now before you tell me I've put petrol in the tank by mistake I've already checked the receipt from the last fuelling and it definitely says diesel on it. Think I might take a sample into uni and analyse it this week (one of the advantages of being a chemistry student.) Will also see if any of the local garages have had a lot of diesels in with fuel problems recently.
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
caveman_si
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Post by caveman_si »

Any news on the running on and poor reving Owen?

I just remembered too since filters were mentioned, I try to keep away from the metal topped ones if possible as I used to get the odd one where the o ring didnt seat properly and causes problems puting the filter houseing lid on and air leaks. My local motor factors do one with a plastic top with a better fitting o-ring which is much better, I think its made by Maher. So far its the best fuel filter ive used in the 1.9td xud lump.

Fingers crossed for you mate
Simon
406 lx 1.9td estate
OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

Well today it is back to the very lumpy running so I'm guessing its blocked the old filter as well, I now have three other people able to smell petrol in the diesel, so am taking a sample in to the lab tomorrow to test it. Spoke to the local peugeot garage today and they agreed it sounds like a contaminated fuel issue.

Also two friends of mine with petrol cars are getting a lot of blue smoke after filling up at the same garage at about the same time, so we are wondering if the lines were connected to the wrong tanks, as neither car normally smokes and both HGs are fine.

I must admit I've not had a problem with bad fits on the filters but I think I'll look at the plastic ones anyway from now on. Anyone know which sort GSF supply or where to get the plastic topped ones?
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
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matt
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Post by matt »

OwenP wrote:
Anyone know which sort GSF supply or where to get the plastic topped ones?
All the ones ive bought from gsf have been steel topped,i cant remember the make but seem good quality,never had any bother.

Good luck!
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1996 VOLVO 850 2.5 5CYL 10V
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504

Post by 504 »

if there is a lot of petrol in the fuel it will of course burn with a naked flame, straight diesel wont!
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hmmm ...

I'd say it cant be petrol in the fuel, as that would cause some nasty ignitions in the exhaust chamber on a diesel. Can be really frightening in fact ... :shock: (been there ...)
I'd believe its water as this is much more likely to get in the filler pipe - or the tank on a refill (the gas station's tank). This would also explain right away the sudden smoking exhaust, as the water content would cause unburnt diesel fuel in the exhaust - and the lumpy running especially on throttle under load.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

I have thought about taking a naked flame to it but, it not very definitive, as for water it could well be, the sensor isn't telling me so, but there is no guarantee that it is working, I know that one light in the dash is out, (side light indicator bulb), so there may be others.

Not managed to test the fuel yet as I need to get hold of some petrol as a "standard" for comparison, but only need a few millilitres. Will pour some off into a jar when the G/F next fills her car up.

I haven't heard any odd ignitions, in fact for the revs it manages to produce the car sounds normal. Would excessive water content foul up the filter, or could that just be the water picking up extra crud from the tank and pulling it through?

Also if it is just water any suggestions on clearing it?
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Water is heavier than fuel - therefore will collect at the bottom of the tanks suction well.
Easiest option is to get at the tank suction pipe, remove it and syphoning up the water.

This is usually found under a plastic lid in the chassis sheeting - accessible when you lift the rear seat and the sound dampening material.

What ever the problem is - this easy task will immediately tell you if it is water or just a messy, muddy, cruddy fuel mix residing in your tank :wink:

Water in fuel looks like jelly floating around at the bottom. Any water may very well displace crud in the fuel.

Take care - even being diesel fuel you are still messing around with flammable fuel in open air.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
OwenP
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IT LIVES

Post by OwenP »

At last I have my car running again, its still a bit rough, but hopefully that should improve as I get more clean diesel into it along with a dose of injector cleaner.

Syphoned about 52 litres out of the tank, chucked in 10 litres of clean along with a new fuel filter and after a few attempts the engine was running properly again. Still can't turn it off with the key so will have to stall it in 5th at the forecourt tomorrow when I fill the tank, but hey at least there is driving power again.

All I can really say about the fuel is it looks like sh**e; very murky, full of particulate, and still stinks to high heaven of petrol, however it doesn't ignite so there can't be that much petrol, prolly just a really bad mix.

Will be writing to the garage though asking for their comments, as tt has still cost my quite a lot of money in Jerry cans and the like.
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

Right the car now seems to run fine. A bit lumpy but I expect that with it still having about 10 litres of crap fuel mostly in the lines themselves.

It has a full tank of diesel from Esso, along with a dose of injector cleaner.

However it still won't turn off, and I don't have the tools to take the stop solenoid out, even worse the MOT is due tomorrow. Will it fail on not turning off with the key?

Cheers
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Any diesel specialist would replace it within 10mins, and stock the valve type you need.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
caveman_si
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Post by caveman_si »

Id say depends on how nice your testers is, he could say its a safe thing that you have to be able to turn it off. But ive been told technically you can mot a chassis without an engine so as long as meets emissions theres not a prob.

Look here: for more info:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

Or you could have a talk to the guy doing the MOT, be upfront tell him about the problem and ask will it fail before the test gets started, saves wasting time and money. Could also ask for a quote for the work while your at it. You never know might be surprised.
I had a few issues with my last car most of which I managed to sort out before the MOT but I didnt have time to do it all or the inclination to some bits such as I knew the rear drums need a rebuild (i didnt fancy it). So i was dead upfront with my local garage, and I got them to do some work ie the brake rebuild, for a good price before the MOT and i was surprised when it passed. Not as shocked as the fact i only got charged what i was quoted as the brakes had taken 2 1/2hrs labour to sort out instead of the 30mins they had said.
406 lx 1.9td estate
OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

Well I booked it in for Tuesday morning, asked the guy when I booked it what did he reckon, he thinks it should pass, will also have a quick look at sorting it out along with anything else that needs doing, hopefully very little.

So it seems like I've got a good one.

As for the car it ran to tescos for the food shop no problem, and back again. No coughing or spluttering any more. Once I've had the MOT I will be writing to the garage concerned with a list of my costs, and/or contacting trading standards over goods not fit for purpose.

Looks like a very useful site caveman_si, can't see anything in there about the car needing to run even, as long as it has a battery for lights and the like...
Last edited by OwenP on 05 Mar 2007, 20:56, edited 1 time in total.
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
OwenP
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Post by OwenP »

Well it passed the MOT with relatively little work needed.

One bulb, and the front track rods (think I may have a word though as the tracking is now way off, central for the wheels has the steering wheel at 45 degrees)

However, the car still won't switch off even though the stop solenoid has been cleaned and I need new brake pads and disks, apparently the old disks (18 months!!!) have corroded to the point of being virtually useless, he quoted me about £100 for disks, pads and labour, this sound about right?

Think I will go and get the stop solenoid off that 405td in the scrappy soon and give that a go. W

ould anyone recommend doing the brake myself or are they better off in the hands of a garage?
2001 406 Rapier 2.0 HDi 90 Estate - Sold Scrap after being viciously attacked by a falling tree
2001 Toyota MR2 1.8 VVTi - To be sold for spares/repair - dead gearbox :(
2014 Seat Ibiza Eastate 1.4 FR ACT (bought in an emergency, but a nice enough low mileage car)
mbunting
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Post by mbunting »

Disks / pads are easy, I did a Xantia in 15 mins per corner.

The bugger factor will be the little "keeper" screw that locates the disc onto the hub - not load bearing, but they sieze - plenty of WD40 but ONLY if the old discs are being thrown away :wink:
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