Gearbox whine.

Post by **maddave** » 28 Feb 2006, 22:10

My Petrol 405 1.8 GL 119,000 miles, has developed a whine when driving. It only happens when in second or third gear. Its quite loud in second but very loud in third. Sounds a bit like straight cut gear sounds or even the whine sound when an electric window operates. Its definatley the gear box because if you dip the clutch it goes away and doesn't occur on idle.

The clutch has a very high biting point if it makes any difference. I.E. you press it about 2 inches and the clutch is pretty much fully disengaged.

Gear changes are quite sloppy and it can be very hard to get first sometimes.

Any ideas what I can do or whats causing the whine?

Thanks.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 01 Mar 2006, 07:47

if you dip the clutch and it stops i would expect something wrong on the primary shaft in the gearbox,bearing or gears starting to fail

Post by **maddave** » 01 Mar 2006, 08:46

pugxpert wrote:if you dip the clutch and it stops i would expect something wrong on the primary shaft in the gearbox,bearing or gears starting to fail

Hmmm..... interesting.

Anyone want to buy a Pug 405 red, 119.000 only two owners, excellent body, esf,ew,pas,lots of history,well maintained, drives well if a little whiney.....

I might try changing the gear box oil to see if that helps. What oil and how much i s needed to fill the box?

After that it looks like maybe new car time in the future.....

Post by **maddave** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:01

Hmmm think Ive found the problem! Just looked under the bonnet to see if I can see anything. There is oil everwhere and mostly all over the gear box! I must have
a: a leak
b: no gearbox oil so this is why the box is whining!

Oh dear.

Gonna have to see if I can source the leak now and patch/repair.... plug with gaffer tape.... hmm

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 01 Mar 2006, 16:19

maddave wrote:Hmmm think Ive found the problem! Just looked under the bonnet to see if I can see anything. There is oil everwhere and mostly all over the gear box! I must have
a: a leak
b: no gearbox oil so this is why the box is whining!

Oh dear.

Gonna have to see if I can source the leak now and patch/repair.... plug with gaffer tape.... hmm

It will be interesting to find out the source of your leak.

How long has it been whining ?

Post by **maddave** » 01 Mar 2006, 17:30

About a week. Will have a look this evening if its not tooo cold.

Post by **maddave** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:57

Well it was tooo cold as it was snowing all around, but I still had a look and and it doesn't look pretty!

Here is what I found on looking under the car:

1: The oil slick:

2: A hole of some sort?:

3: What was found in the hole:

In the Haynes manual it looks like there is a kind of cover on this hole, so I m not entirely sure if the oil has been coming out of here. I cant see any other place that its from. I couldn't top the oil up to see if it drips out of anywhere as the fill plug is so rusted and I cant get a spanner round it at all. There is oil everywhere though not just round that square hole. Its up around the inspection panel at the front of the box and all down the back of the gear box and down some of the chassis on that side. Seems mighty strange. Its a bit worrrying the bit of metal I found in the hole but apart from that the car drives great.

I think I will have to get rid of it soon though because if I keep driving it its going to go bang within days rather than months. So annoying, I love my pug 405, but cant see a new gearbox being cheap.

Any views on this subject welcome.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 01 Mar 2006, 21:39

they all seem to have that hole in your picture not sure what its for though! bit more concerned about that piece of alloy you have found,i would have a look around the diff area if something breaks in there it usually flys threw the side either round the back or if you remove the box inside bell housing is another area where it can blow out from.

Post by **maddave** » 01 Mar 2006, 22:29

Hmmm.. well something has obvioulsy broken/burst since that bit of metal and all the oil shouldn't be there. Im gonna have a good look again on saturday when I can see more and maybe try and have a go at undoing the filler plug to pour a bit of oil in and see where it comes out.

I have a feeling its terminal but if I can patch up the leak and fill it with oil then it might last a few more months until I can sort our finances and a new motor, since it is driving at the moment with no problems - except the unforseen damage I maybe doing with no oil in the gearbox!

Thanks for your help, I will report back what I find.

Peter D · Post by **Peter D** » 05 Mar 2006, 09:17

Are you sure it is not just a worn out drive shaft oil seal. Regards Peter

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:29

That's an impressive leak! I seriously doubt it's just a failed oil seal.

If you want to keep the car on the road for a while longer, I'd say get a scrapyard gearbox, and change it over. Not very difficult, and these gearboxes are usually very long lasting, so the chances are the box you get will be a good-un. Should be very cheap too. Maybe £20-£30. If you find a decent breakers they may even take it out for you.

Keep the 405 on the road. They're excellent cars.

Peter D · Post by **Peter D** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:49

No it's not I.ve removed several drive shaft oil seals that had torn or just collapled causeing the box to drop it's contents down to the bootom on the seal on a single 50 journey. How do I know, Well the owner did not have a mark on his drive and 25 miles later noticed oil under his car when he came out of work and was not sure it was his then 25 miles later at home looked underneath and he could see the underneath dripping with oil. Many drive shaft seal also do not leak much until they rotate then they leak a lot more due the flexibility of the seal lost with age. Regards Peter

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 05 Mar 2006, 12:15

Peter D wrote:No it's not....

What's not?

Peter D · Post by **Peter D** » 05 Mar 2006, 13:11

That's an impressive leak! No it's not Regards Peter

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 05 Mar 2006, 13:23

To have lost all your gearbox oil, and made such a mess of the subframe, gearbox and other local parts, to me is fairly impressive. I know it's not that bad, and have seen worse leaks of fluids, but the BE type gearbox is usually fairly oil-tight, and doesn't make that much of a mess.

There's also the small consideration of the chunk of aluminium that has been "found". If that's the source of the leak (which I'm guessing it may have something to do with) then that's an impressive hole in a BE gearbox if nothing else.