205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

This is the Forum for all your Peugeot Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 13 Oct 2002, 00:06

My 205 Diesel has started first time every morning since I have owned it with no problems.
But on Tuesday it morning it was very slow to start. This continued until yesterday morning until it refused to start completly. I called out Green Flag and the mechanic thought my fuel filter was blocked? I could not afford for him to take it away so I thought I would fault find myself. I was about to walk to the Motor Factors when I thought I would give it one more shot, it started first time!!
I changed the fuel filter last night but again the car would not start this morning.
I have done or know the following-
1. Fuel filter changed.
2. I have checked priming plunger and fuel is coming out of the shank when you push it up and down, is this normal?
3. The filter is the Luca type with the centre bolt.
4. When the car eventually starts it will fire up with no problems until the next morning.
5. No clues to why this happened as it just started overnight.
Could it be a bad batch of fuel or an air leak? I am a novice with diesel engines because I spend most of my time on petrol. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, DJ
David M G Jones

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by Dave Burns » 14 Oct 2002, 04:10

My old 205 had the lucas filter fitted, I don't remember any fuel escaping at the priming plunger shaft so I wouldn't think it was normal on yours, but probably of little consequence since after bleeding the plunger is screwed down, this is to ensure the pump cylinder is completely sealed.

I do know that if you are too vigourous in lifting it that the shaft can become detached from the actual plunger, there should be a fair bit of resistance when operating it.

A sudden refusal to start can be air getting in (leakoff pipes is a common point of entry), glow relay or plugs not working or the fuel cut off solenoid on the pump not energising properly.
If the solenoid is supected, it can be unscrewed and its spring and plunger removed, if the starting problems are still there then look elsewhere for the fault, the engine will have to be stopped manually if you do this, by using the lever on top of the pump.
Or you can loosen a injector pipe union when the fault next occurs, no fuel present would mean the solenoid plunger has not lifted.
Dave

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 14 Oct 2002, 17:08

Many thanks for your information Dave. Where can I find the solenoid you are refering to? I told you I was a novice when on diesels!
I will give this a try. Their seems to be a good bit of resistance in the pluger and I can hear fuel going into the pump.
Cheers, dave.
David M G Jones

kevin
Posts: 129
Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 18:06

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by kevin » 14 Oct 2002, 18:11

It could be worthwhile checking the glowplugs and heating system as well as the battery out. In my experience with the venerable XUD 1.8/1.9 engines, heaterplugs usually last for 30,000 miles before showing signs of poor working. The relay box for the heating system is the blue/black box located somewhere in the passengerside of the engine compartment. It could be adviseable to clean the terminals on this to make a better contact.
The cut off relay is located at the rear of the DPC pump close to the injector pipes at the top of the pump.
One final pointv to watch out for with the Lucas/CAV pump, the top plate tends to wear under the pressure of the main accelerator spring that is on top of the pump. The plate can be replaced by any lucas service agent rather than an exchange pump.
Kevin

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 15 Oct 2002, 01:48

Done some work tonight without success I am afraid!
1. Took out the solenoid and it made no difference.
2. Undid the injector pump union and their is no fuel coming out of any of the four.
3.Could the fuel pump be u/s?
4.took of the supply pipe at the pump and fuel is getting to the pump no problem.
5. Wouldn't the fuel pump either be good or duff? Would I have had intermittent problems last week if it was the fuel pump.
6. Checked the glow plug wiring with a multi meter and their is definetly power getting to the plug.
7. Battery is fine.
Any more thoughts or ideas??
Thanks again.
DJ
David M G Jones

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by Dave Burns » 15 Oct 2002, 02:59

Did you bleed the filter housing using the nipple on the outlet pipe banjo union, open it and pump primer untill fuel free from bubbles runs out, after doing this the priming pump should be operated a dozen or so more times, but during this the solenoid must be open (ignition on if the solenoid is known to be good) or disabled by having its plunger removed, otherwise fuel will not be able to enter the pump as you operate the primer.
Check the manual stop lever on the top of the pump is going back to its stop under spring pressure.
I should have told you this earlier I suppose but when you unscrew the solenoid, fuel in the pump will want to run back to the tank and air will be drawn in, so you need to unscrew the solenoid, remove the spring and plunger, then operate the hand primer until fuel emerges from the screw hole where the solenoid screws in, screw the solenoid back in while the screw hole is full of fuel to ensure no air gets in, keep the primer going untill the solenoid is home, if any air gets in you are fighting a loosing battle.
Loosen all injector unions and crank engine, fuel should soon emerge.
If it doesn't there is either air still present or possibly a pump fault.
If fuel does emerge, tighten unions and go through starting sequence.
Dave
p.s close bleed niple's during a pump stroke, don't just stop pumping and then close the niple, as air soon gets back in.

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 15 Oct 2002, 21:01

has the fuel pump got a relay?
David M G Jones

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by Dave Burns » 16 Oct 2002, 00:27

No, only the solenoid, energised directly by the ignition switch.
Dave

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 16 Oct 2002, 03:26

Tried everything tonight but just cant get it to start!
There is a positive supply of fuel coming out of the solenoid hole when using the plunger, so fuel appears to be getting into the pump. At the injectors though there is only a dribble of fuel coming out when turning over. I think the fuel pump is dead or I just cant get the air out of the system. I think I will have to give up and go to a garage!!
David M G Jones

spanners
Posts: 77
Joined: 10 Sep 2002, 03:29

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by spanners » 16 Oct 2002, 04:10

when you say a dribble how much are we talking will not be a lot of pressure that is increased by injector nozzle, had a problem once with bx where the return pipe banjo on pump had stuck (small ball bearing inside)was causing back pressure in pump,they had similar problems on xantia 93 models where the banjo pipe was angled too much. take pipe off and see if fuel is getting this far, worth a try.

skiing39
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 23:43

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by skiing39 » 21 Oct 2002, 00:49

Changed the glow plugs today and the car started first time!!
So much for what thr Green Flag mechanic said!
Does anyone know what the arm is for that goes from the top of the fuel pump to the back side is for? Connected to the accelarator cable.
Thanks for all yuor help
David M G Jones

kevin
Posts: 129
Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 18:06

205 GRD 1989 - will not start.

Post by kevin » 25 Oct 2002, 20:56

When you next change the heater plugs do not buy the cheapest quality, always use Bosch or equlivelant. Original Bosch units from Peugeot cost the earth, shop around and this will usually save around half the price.
I am assuming you have the Lucas/Rotodiesel/CAV DPC pump on your vehicle, the rod could be some form of damper.
Yours
Dr R V Swirl-chamber