I have a feeling I know exactly what is causing the crap starting and slightly poor economy on my 405 1.9TD, but I just want to be sure before spending even more cash on it.
It struggles to start, both hot and cold, and when it does finally start (usually after about 8-10 pistons over TDC) it runs a bit rough for a few seconds, and emits grey smoke.
Many people will already be thinking "glowplugs", but it has a brand new set of beru ones fitted, which I tested before fitting. In the last year or so it has also had:
Head skim (2 thou, not bad.) New valve guides, recut valve seats.
Fully reconditioned (bosch) injection pump (the cam ring was breaking up quite badly)
Cambelt, timing done with the bolts/peg in place, and triple checked.
Injection pump timing set with a D.T.I. and is spot on.
All fuel lines replaced/checked for leaks. There is clear fuel pipe on the intake to the pump and it has no air. Even if I prime the system for ages before starting, it makes no difference.
and still it won't start properly. I've had umpteen XUD engines, and this is the worst starting one I've ever had.
The only thing left that it can possibly be is the injectors. This seems to be confirmed by running the glowplugs for longer than the timer dictates, and the starting is slightly better. This suggests to me that the spray pattern is very poor, and that by making the whole combustion chamber a bit hotter before starting, the spray atomizes a bit better, and burns sooner.
Unless I am missing something?
David.
Am I missing anything obvious?
Moderator: RichardW
- fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
- fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
Valve clearances were checked to death with 2 different sets of feeler guages (initially with my imperial ones, and then I found my metric set) both with the head on the bench, and then with it on the car. I may check them again though, as things may have settled (it was all new of course).
The leak off pipes are all brand new too as the old ones disintegrated in my hands when I pulled them off. Only non-new bit is the stop-end, and that seemed fine (no cracks etc.) I even went all-out and put new copper washers on the fuel banjo bolts. [:O] (first time I've ever done that!)
The leak off pipes are all brand new too as the old ones disintegrated in my hands when I pulled them off. Only non-new bit is the stop-end, and that seemed fine (no cracks etc.) I even went all-out and put new copper washers on the fuel banjo bolts. [:O] (first time I've ever done that!)
I had a similar problem to you with progressively difficult starting, having to re-energise the glowplugs 3 or 4 times and when it did start, smoke and rough running for about 30-45 seconds.
I replaced the glowplugs and it improved for a while but then got worse again.
Anyway, more plugs later, it was cured, and I put this down to overtightened glowplugs causing the insulation to break down. I screwed the last set in not much more than hand tight (90k miles ago!) and had no problem since.
Have you tried removing the bar that connects all the plugs and then testing each one with a continuity meter from the top of the plug to earth to see whether they all have a similar reading?
I replaced the glowplugs and it improved for a while but then got worse again.
Anyway, more plugs later, it was cured, and I put this down to overtightened glowplugs causing the insulation to break down. I screwed the last set in not much more than hand tight (90k miles ago!) and had no problem since.
Have you tried removing the bar that connects all the plugs and then testing each one with a continuity meter from the top of the plug to earth to see whether they all have a similar reading?
- fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
All the glowplugs are working fine. They've been tested and double tested. They all draw the correct current, have the correct resistance and have not been overtightened. The timer relay works properly.
The cold start advance might have been a culpret, but on the 1.9TD engine they are ultra-reliable (not a wax unit) and even if it had failed, the engine should still start better than this. It doesn't start well even when hot. I've had some XUD Turbo engines in the past that start hot with no glowplug and about 0.5 seconds of cranking. This one still needs 10 seconds of plugs and 5 of of cranking to start it when it's hot.
Has anyone had an engine with missing fire-seal washers before? and if so did it cause similar problems? I've never had the injectors out of this engine, but I've heard that missing fire-seal washers can cause havoc. I think I shall have to be resigned to the need for 4 recon injectors!
The cold start advance might have been a culpret, but on the 1.9TD engine they are ultra-reliable (not a wax unit) and even if it had failed, the engine should still start better than this. It doesn't start well even when hot. I've had some XUD Turbo engines in the past that start hot with no glowplug and about 0.5 seconds of cranking. This one still needs 10 seconds of plugs and 5 of of cranking to start it when it's hot.
Has anyone had an engine with missing fire-seal washers before? and if so did it cause similar problems? I've never had the injectors out of this engine, but I've heard that missing fire-seal washers can cause havoc. I think I shall have to be resigned to the need for 4 recon injectors!
- demag
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 1441
- Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 05:03
- Location: Black Country, aye it ar kid.
- My Cars: "H" Citroen Bx Tgs Automatic.
2006 Toyota Prius T4 Gen 2. - x 102
what about some injector cleaner in the tank and give it a blast up your local bypass?
I did that on my Nissan and the crap that came out of the back was very impressive![:I] And the performance seemed slightly better after.
That was the only way a mate of mine could get his Rover 400 diesel through the test every year.
My TD takes a bit of winding over to start (and when hot) but I put it down to the battery being a bit tired.
I did that on my Nissan and the crap that came out of the back was very impressive![:I] And the performance seemed slightly better after.
That was the only way a mate of mine could get his Rover 400 diesel through the test every year.
My TD takes a bit of winding over to start (and when hot) but I put it down to the battery being a bit tired.
A little story:
One night, after arriving back from watching an ice-hockey match ( we'd gone by coach ), the xantia wouldn't start. It had been completely reliable until that point, and it just would not start - even being push started.
Called out the AA, the chap managed to get it started on some easy-start into the air inlet, checked the injectors for fuel etc..
Final diagnosis was a duff battery, confirmed the next day when I got a new one and the car was fine after that.
No warning signs, ie. no progressive difficulty in starting the car, it just would not start from hot or cold.
Remember, the fuel cut-off solenoid is electrical, so if there isn't enough juice to keep this open, then the car will not run properly.
Have you swapped the battery for a known good one ?
One night, after arriving back from watching an ice-hockey match ( we'd gone by coach ), the xantia wouldn't start. It had been completely reliable until that point, and it just would not start - even being push started.
Called out the AA, the chap managed to get it started on some easy-start into the air inlet, checked the injectors for fuel etc..
Final diagnosis was a duff battery, confirmed the next day when I got a new one and the car was fine after that.
No warning signs, ie. no progressive difficulty in starting the car, it just would not start from hot or cold.
Remember, the fuel cut-off solenoid is electrical, so if there isn't enough juice to keep this open, then the car will not run properly.
Have you swapped the battery for a known good one ?