Xantia 2.1 td rough starting..update

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myheadhurts
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Xantia 2.1 td rough starting..update

Post by myheadhurts »

Thought I was doing well , I've had the above for 6 months and other than a leaking tailgate all has been well.However over the last week the car has developed a problem when starting from cold , It fires up as normal after a couple of turns but then seems to miss fire which is accompanied with quite a bit of blue smoke.Once the engine has been ticking over for a couple of mins or driven about 500yds the problem vanishes and it runs as normal , it only seems to happen when the engine is cold...first thing on a morning or when leaving work.It's a 98 2.1 td with all the electronic bits ,has done 110k and has been serviced every 6k from new, the K light is not showing when the fault occurs ,Any advice will be greatly appreciated before I start looking for the needle in a haystack[?]
bxbodger
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Post by bxbodger »

It sounds like one or two of the glow plugs have gone west- thats why it only gives bother when cold, and will be more noticable now that the mornings are colder.
Have they ever been replaced? If not, then its about the time when they will start to go!!
myheadhurts
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Post by myheadhurts »

All four glow plugs were replaced september last year at 100k.Forgot to mention when driving for the first few hundred yards when cold the misfire/smoking is als accompanied by diesel clatter when trying to accelerate.
KEITHC
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Post by KEITHC »

It may be worth getting the valve clearances checked, I had a similar problem with a 205D. When cold, a valve or valves may be slightly open. Not much heat was needed for things to expand and close the valves up.
NiSk
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Post by NiSk »

The 2.1 TD12 has hydraulic valve lifters - nothing to adjust/check.
//NiSk
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Post by JohnD »

Sounds like one, if not two duff gloplugs. In spite of being replaced 10000 miles ago, if they were of doubtful quality, they could still be US. That's where I'd start looking. In view of the amount of dismantling to be done on the 2.1, if one plug needs changing, I'd do them all.
wrinklet1
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Post by wrinklet1 »

Your glow plugs need changing.
Get yourself a really good set of glowplugs (dont skimp on price).
When you turn your ignition on, the glowplugs light up and generate heat to normal running temp inside the cylinder and the the warnig light goes out on the dash to say you can start up. The glowplugs stay on after the light goes out and still glow when the engine is started, this helps the get the car running properly.
If one or more plugs have burned out you will get poor starting and rough running for a few hundred yards, and you will get blue smoke because the engine is not burning the fuel.
If you dont get the plugs changed soon, you will be replacing the battery too as it has to do extra work getting the car started in th first place.
Paul
PS dont get plugs from Halfords, they are C**p.[:I]
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

If you fit the wrong plugs to a 1.9 TD, they last a matter of months if not weeks. Does the same apply to the 2.1TD ??
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Post by NiSk »

No, but if you fit glowplugs for an earlier XM TD12 (mechanical injection) to a Xantia, they won't be glowing long enough - the XM has a much longer glow time than the electronically injected Xantia (and hence different plugs).
//NiSk
myheadhurts
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Post by myheadhurts »

The glow plugs are bosch ones , do you think they should fail after 11 months ?.I'm not sure , as the car fires up fine(never turns over more than twice) and ticks over normaly for about 10 seconds before it starts to cough and splutter.I've also tried leaving the key at the preheat position until I hear the relay click off and this makes no difference at all[?]
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Your glowplugs will stay on for a while after the engine fires, primarily to reduce emissions. This is controlled by the timer unit, not the plug itself. If you fit the wrong plug (eg from a BX) which is not meant to stay on after the engine fires then they will burn out quickly.
If the engine starts properly in the first place then your plugs are not burnt out! The timer may not be staying on as intended but while this might cause some smoke I don't see why it should cause uneven running as the BX has no problems here.
I think it more likely that some air is getting in somewhere and is being drawn into the pump after the engine fires. I'd start by looking at all pipes and their clips and at the leakof pipes. At least this is cheap!
jeremy
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Post by NiSk »

Yes - I'm inclined to think along the same lines - air leaks are the bane of diesel engines, and the 2.1 liter is no exception - I had lots of trouble with this on my Xm TD12 until I was advised to change all the rubber fuel hoses - and another thing - does the TD12 in the Xantia still have the fuel preheater mounted on the left hand end of the head? If so, bypass it! It's a very common cause of air leaks - the aluminium casting become porous and lets in air.
//NiSk
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Post by JohnD »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by myheadhurts</i>

the car fires up fine(never turns over more than twice) and ticks over normaly for about 10 seconds before it starts to cough and splutter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
To rule out a small air leak, try pumping up the primer bulb until it's firm before attempting the first start of the day.
myheadhurts
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Post by myheadhurts »

Thanks for all your advice , I'll try pumping the primer bulb in the morning and see if it makes a difference.If it has an air leak somewhere would it not cause the car to run rough all the time ? ,as it is it runs perfect after the first 500 yards and starts without missing as long as the engine is still slightly warm.
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Post by JohnD »

IF it's an air leak problem, the leak will be so small that as it leaks in during the night, the fuel falls back towards the tank. Once the air is pumped through and replaced by fuel, the engine runs fine until the next long idle period.
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