Model: Xantia HDi2.0 non-hydractive with ABS.
- Is it possible to install bigger discs? From other brand?
- Is it possible to upgrade the ABS programme? For instance, isn't Xantia Activa ABS system superior? (Televés)
- What else?
How to improve Xantia braking system?
Moderator: RichardW
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Thunderbird
Jeremy, thanks for your concern.
Basically, I would like to achieve:
1. Reduce braking distances.
My previous Saxo 1.6 16V 120Hp 940Kg had shorter braking distances. I've alsdo read Xantia Activa also has much shorter braking distances.
2. Improve ABS performance. ABS operation doesn't seem to be optimized, and when operating, braking distance increases considerably. Probably Xantia Activa has a much better ABS.
Both points are related to the increase of active security of the Xantia. The car is heavy and the braking performance seems to be bellow other cars I've driven, including the Citroen Saxo I mentioned, Renault Laguna, etc.
Basically, I would like to achieve:
1. Reduce braking distances.
My previous Saxo 1.6 16V 120Hp 940Kg had shorter braking distances. I've alsdo read Xantia Activa also has much shorter braking distances.
2. Improve ABS performance. ABS operation doesn't seem to be optimized, and when operating, braking distance increases considerably. Probably Xantia Activa has a much better ABS.
Both points are related to the increase of active security of the Xantia. The car is heavy and the braking performance seems to be bellow other cars I've driven, including the Citroen Saxo I mentioned, Renault Laguna, etc.
Have to confess I don't know owt about this but:-
Did they ever make a none hydraactive HDi?
Do you get into enough situations where you realise that the ABS is not optimised - in 30k of driving an HDi I don't think it has yet had to come into operation? (Thank goodness)
Why would Activa ABS be better then the other? (If it is another)
Surely the main aim of ABS is to enable you to steer while braking rather than losing control with locked wheels?
Why would a car manufacturer introduce a system which greatly increased braking distances? I can see situatons where it might increase distances (ice? loose gravel?) but surely not on "normal" surfaces?
Brakes on my wife's Xantia seem brilliant - certainly as good if not better than previous Xants, Bxs and my Berlingo and compared to other cars I have driven (Fords, various Renaults etc) much better.
If you are breaking your Xantia can I have first offer on the spares?!!!!
Did they ever make a none hydraactive HDi?
Do you get into enough situations where you realise that the ABS is not optimised - in 30k of driving an HDi I don't think it has yet had to come into operation? (Thank goodness)
Why would Activa ABS be better then the other? (If it is another)
Surely the main aim of ABS is to enable you to steer while braking rather than losing control with locked wheels?
Why would a car manufacturer introduce a system which greatly increased braking distances? I can see situatons where it might increase distances (ice? loose gravel?) but surely not on "normal" surfaces?
Brakes on my wife's Xantia seem brilliant - certainly as good if not better than previous Xants, Bxs and my Berlingo and compared to other cars I have driven (Fords, various Renaults etc) much better.
If you are breaking your Xantia can I have first offer on the spares?!!!!
I reckon the ABS on my P-reg Xantia is better than that on my old T-reg Pug 406 HDi90 (old as in had to give it back to the company when I left). If you think yours is rubbish, I think there must be something very wrong with it.
I've only had to use the ABS in anger on a couple of occaisions, usually involving muddy, narrow lanes and large, heavy farm machinery. I wouldn't be without now, I tried braking without ABS and found it very difficult not to lock the wheels up (my boss managed to flip his Xantia onto its roof while braking extremely hard at the top of Jack and Jill hill - needless to say, his did NOT have ABS).
My understanding from a chap who used to design ECU's for Ford was that the ABS's primary aim is to stop the wheels locking up. The consequence of this is a significantly reduced stopping distance (unless you are really, really good at cadence braking...). This in itself should improve your chances to steer yourself out of trouble as well, but the Pug406 also had Electronic Force distribution, which (allegedly) adjusted the braking effort around the wheels depending on the load so as to improve the steerabilty. I was never sure about how much of his was real and how much was marketing hype.
I've only had to use the ABS in anger on a couple of occaisions, usually involving muddy, narrow lanes and large, heavy farm machinery. I wouldn't be without now, I tried braking without ABS and found it very difficult not to lock the wheels up (my boss managed to flip his Xantia onto its roof while braking extremely hard at the top of Jack and Jill hill - needless to say, his did NOT have ABS).
My understanding from a chap who used to design ECU's for Ford was that the ABS's primary aim is to stop the wheels locking up. The consequence of this is a significantly reduced stopping distance (unless you are really, really good at cadence braking...). This in itself should improve your chances to steer yourself out of trouble as well, but the Pug406 also had Electronic Force distribution, which (allegedly) adjusted the braking effort around the wheels depending on the load so as to improve the steerabilty. I was never sure about how much of his was real and how much was marketing hype.
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DarkendViper
- Posts: 98
- Joined: 03 Jan 2004, 22:18
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Do you know what size disks your Xantia has on the front? Mine had 283mm and i never had a problem stopping, ithought that the stopping distances was rather short. I've now got a ZX 1.9i Volcane and the breaks are awful.
You could try getting some better bads, greenstuff, black diamond, or another performance brand. You could also try drilled disks. I have had these on different cars and found them to really improve braking.
The abs system on my Xantia never kicked in apart from when a rear sensor started playing up. I just unplugged it and your back to normal brakes. I only ever locked the wheels up once and that was on purpose just to find out how much force was needed.
Ste
You could try getting some better bads, greenstuff, black diamond, or another performance brand. You could also try drilled disks. I have had these on different cars and found them to really improve braking.
The abs system on my Xantia never kicked in apart from when a rear sensor started playing up. I just unplugged it and your back to normal brakes. I only ever locked the wheels up once and that was on purpose just to find out how much force was needed.
Ste
I have ABS on my BX TD and it does work properly. What I can say is that while I'm sure it keeps the car steering as best it can, it can feel disconcerting in the the dry, certainly at slow speeds. Someone opened a door on me the other day in a narrow road and I thought i was giong to hit it. The ABS worked and pulsed but the car seemed to keep going on. In fact it stopped quite well but quietly. Had I not had it I would have let the tyres squeal and stopped with the wheels locked - much more dramatic but more effective? I have since replaced the accumulator sphere just in case this improves things.
lack of bite can be due to all sorts of things - our ZX 1,9D was dramatically improved when I replaced the discs and pads. I can only think that the previous pads were rubbing on a rusty section of the disc and not making proper contact.
jeremy
lack of bite can be due to all sorts of things - our ZX 1,9D was dramatically improved when I replaced the discs and pads. I can only think that the previous pads were rubbing on a rusty section of the disc and not making proper contact.
jeremy
I can remeber the first time I drove my mum's xantia, being used to the ZX where you have to push the pedal rather than rest on it. The first time I braked the only thing that stopped me comming out of the seat and banging my head on the windscreen was the seatbelt! The bakes are stonking and the car stays level through out.
I know a few people that drive Mk2 Mr2s that take the fuse out that controls the ABS so they have manual brakes, dunno if I'd be that brave though.
I know a few people that drive Mk2 Mr2s that take the fuse out that controls the ABS so they have manual brakes, dunno if I'd be that brave though.
It sounds strange to me that you are not happy with your Xantia's brakes, as it's the first time i hear a complaint about that matter.
I used to have a Saxo VTS 1.6 too, and now I have a Activa , and I think Activa's brakes are uncomparable.
Moreover, I recently installed a set of TAROX disks and a pair of hard pads (don't remember the brand - but they were english) , and the cars stops great!
Dimitris
Xantia ACTIVA 2.0 TURBO ,'99, "slightly tuned"![;)]
http://users.otenet.gr/~activa
I used to have a Saxo VTS 1.6 too, and now I have a Activa , and I think Activa's brakes are uncomparable.
Moreover, I recently installed a set of TAROX disks and a pair of hard pads (don't remember the brand - but they were english) , and the cars stops great!
Dimitris
Xantia ACTIVA 2.0 TURBO ,'99, "slightly tuned"![;)]
http://users.otenet.gr/~activa
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Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
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- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
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Thunderbird
I was talking about braking in extreme conditions - not everyday's driving. Extreme conditions can be one of two kinds: eminent danger or sports driving.
Xantia brakes have a poor performance in extreme usage (except Activa version).
ABS matters because when it actuates it may increase or decrease braking distances, according to the efficiency and intelligence of the programme that controls it.
Weight only makes a difference if brakes remain unchanged. Usually, heavier cars have better brakes to compensate that fact.
Now, some figures for the skeptics: Time from 130km/h (81mph) to 0km/h:
Xantia mk2 2.0HDi Exclusive - 76.8 meters
Xantia mk2 V6 Activa - 62.2 m
Saxo 1.6i 16V - 64.4 m
Berlingo 1.8 - 73.4 m
Ford Focus 1.8TDdi - 69.7 m
Renault Espace 2.2dT - 73.9 m
Land Rover Freelander 1.8i - 72.4 m
Lexus LS400 - 69.2 m
etc. ok, I admit I've found a few "superb" cars that are even worst than the Xantia (except Activa version):
Renault Clio 1.2 - 77.2 m
Seat Arosa 1.0 - 79.6 m
Suzuki Jimny 1.3 - 83.9 m
Daewoo Matiz SE (800cc!) - 82.9 m
Citroen Saxo 1.0 - 81.9 m
PS: I hope these cruel and nude facts won't shock anyone. Xantia Activa brakes very well indeeed. Other Xantias, just the opposite. Good brakes cost money... Citroen had to cut somewhere, so that they could reach Xantia's competitive low retail prices... [:o)]
Xantia brakes have a poor performance in extreme usage (except Activa version).
ABS matters because when it actuates it may increase or decrease braking distances, according to the efficiency and intelligence of the programme that controls it.
Weight only makes a difference if brakes remain unchanged. Usually, heavier cars have better brakes to compensate that fact.
Now, some figures for the skeptics: Time from 130km/h (81mph) to 0km/h:
Xantia mk2 2.0HDi Exclusive - 76.8 meters
Xantia mk2 V6 Activa - 62.2 m
Saxo 1.6i 16V - 64.4 m
Berlingo 1.8 - 73.4 m
Ford Focus 1.8TDdi - 69.7 m
Renault Espace 2.2dT - 73.9 m
Land Rover Freelander 1.8i - 72.4 m
Lexus LS400 - 69.2 m
etc. ok, I admit I've found a few "superb" cars that are even worst than the Xantia (except Activa version):
Renault Clio 1.2 - 77.2 m
Seat Arosa 1.0 - 79.6 m
Suzuki Jimny 1.3 - 83.9 m
Daewoo Matiz SE (800cc!) - 82.9 m
Citroen Saxo 1.0 - 81.9 m
PS: I hope these cruel and nude facts won't shock anyone. Xantia Activa brakes very well indeeed. Other Xantias, just the opposite. Good brakes cost money... Citroen had to cut somewhere, so that they could reach Xantia's competitive low retail prices... [:o)]