Suspension reliability: Xantia or C5?
Moderator: RichardW
Suspension reliability: Xantia or C5?
Which one is the winner, providing more miles with less trouble? (and questions placed on this forum)
Owing a C5, and taking into consideration the diferences between the 2 HP systems (mechanical/electro-hydraulic), the C5 has an extended life span of it's spheres (new membrane material and different hydraulic fluid), and the integrated electric pump/distributor/accumulator assembly ("firing" only when necessary) should also increase the time between substitutions.
However, since the hydro-electric block is integrated, replacing it is prone to be more expensive. BTW, the accumulator is extremely small in this system, compared with "standard" ones.
As for suspension control, hydraulic units remain with the same basic design, and the height correctors are now electronic position sensors, but still have a plastic link from the stab bar.
All in all, in my humble opinion, the C5 is less prone to problems, although with all the electronics controlling it, DIY is more difficult, and when problems happen (in electronic parts) they happen, and there's little a common man can do without resorting to Citroën.
I hope this view of mine helps...
All the best,
Patxi
However, since the hydro-electric block is integrated, replacing it is prone to be more expensive. BTW, the accumulator is extremely small in this system, compared with "standard" ones.
As for suspension control, hydraulic units remain with the same basic design, and the height correctors are now electronic position sensors, but still have a plastic link from the stab bar.
All in all, in my humble opinion, the C5 is less prone to problems, although with all the electronics controlling it, DIY is more difficult, and when problems happen (in electronic parts) they happen, and there's little a common man can do without resorting to Citroën.
I hope this view of mine helps...
All the best,
Patxi
Patxi, I am from Portugal too... As you probably know, Citroen maintenance costs in our country are prohibitive.
Those reasons you mentioned really makes me think twice before buying a C5 mk2 (out soon), except maybe with an extension of the guarantee to 5 years.
Where do you usually buy parts? and where do you go when a repair is needed? Do you also have a 406?
Those reasons you mentioned really makes me think twice before buying a C5 mk2 (out soon), except maybe with an extension of the guarantee to 5 years.
Where do you usually buy parts? and where do you go when a repair is needed? Do you also have a 406?
Ask yourself this question: is a non-hyractive XM more reliable than a hydractive XM? And what's the difference - one of them has a lot more electrics than the other!
Speaking for a non-hydractive XM with 530,000 km under its bonnet nad absolutly NO suspension problems in 11 years.
I think you can guess the answer to your own question!
//NiSk
Speaking for a non-hydractive XM with 530,000 km under its bonnet nad absolutly NO suspension problems in 11 years.
I think you can guess the answer to your own question!
//NiSk
For my first service, i'm considering going to Mafra, i have better experience with outskirts mechanics...
Parts... well, the 1.8 spheres i bought to my HDI (non H3 plus) were purchased in Sacavém, but i know a slaesman from Saldanha... if you need something when buying the C5 mkII...
As for the 406, it's one of 2 or 3 brought to our country (V6), that used to belong to one of the importer's CEO's. Cheap deal, some troubles to fix...that's life!
See ya!
Parts... well, the 1.8 spheres i bought to my HDI (non H3 plus) were purchased in Sacavém, but i know a slaesman from Saldanha... if you need something when buying the C5 mkII...
As for the 406, it's one of 2 or 3 brought to our country (V6), that used to belong to one of the importer's CEO's. Cheap deal, some troubles to fix...that's life!
See ya!
My father also had a XM 2.0i for ten years with hidractive suspension and the only trouble he had was the need of changing spheres and LHM.
It's true that in ten years he made less than half of your kilometers.
Still, if the C5 suspension's electronics are as good as XM's ones and the C5 spheres/supension fluid last much more, it may be cheaper to maintain the C5...
We should not confuse failure with wear/lifetime, altough in some cases, it's hard to say which is which.
Xantia height controlers wear out (or fail) very fast. It's true that they may be easy to fix, but C5 ones will be even easier (altough costier).
It's true that in ten years he made less than half of your kilometers.
Still, if the C5 suspension's electronics are as good as XM's ones and the C5 spheres/supension fluid last much more, it may be cheaper to maintain the C5...
We should not confuse failure with wear/lifetime, altough in some cases, it's hard to say which is which.
Xantia height controlers wear out (or fail) very fast. It's true that they may be easy to fix, but C5 ones will be even easier (altough costier).
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"If a DS, GS or SM doesn't need a computer to work, then why does a C5?"
Tom, simply because Citroën likes to be an "avantgard" builder.
But the idea of an integrated hydro unit is very good. Still no problems with my electrics.
But i wouldn't get into a Mercedes SL with the new electric brakes, no way!
Thunderbird, i live in Lisbon. Is your repro HDI good? gotta try when some euros come by.
Cheers guys!
Tom, simply because Citroën likes to be an "avantgard" builder.
But the idea of an integrated hydro unit is very good. Still no problems with my electrics.
But i wouldn't get into a Mercedes SL with the new electric brakes, no way!
Thunderbird, i live in Lisbon. Is your repro HDI good? gotta try when some euros come by.
Cheers guys!
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NiSk</i>
Ask yourself this question: is a non-hyractive XM more reliable than a hydractive XM? And what's the difference - one of them has a lot more electrics than the other!
Speaking for a non-hydractive XM with 530,000 km under its bonnet nad absolutly NO suspension problems in 11 years.
I think you can guess the answer to your own question!
//NiSk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Non-hydractive XM? I didn't realise there was such a thing.
Ask yourself this question: is a non-hyractive XM more reliable than a hydractive XM? And what's the difference - one of them has a lot more electrics than the other!
Speaking for a non-hydractive XM with 530,000 km under its bonnet nad absolutly NO suspension problems in 11 years.
I think you can guess the answer to your own question!
//NiSk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Non-hydractive XM? I didn't realise there was such a thing.
Despite having a diesel BX where the only "electronics" in the system is the stop-solenoid, I have no fear of electronic on cars- they are usually a whole lot more reliable than their mechanical equivelent. This is because there are no, or very few , moving parts and so nothing to wear out.
Basically, cars used to break down a lot more than they do now!!
you only have to look at the differences in reliability between carburettor based systems and EFI systems. Granted, a carb system is easier to fix, but you also need to do it a lot more often ( anyone ever had a pierburg carb, and what about the old lucas mechanical PI system[}:)]?)
Electronic faults nearly always stem from the same 2 things- dodgy connections, and dirty sensors.
An electronic control system should be a lot more reliable, but I think the main reason it's on the C5 is because electronic compononts are ridiculously cheap to make- thats why a modern solid state TV is a lot cheaper in relative terms than an old valve one.
It won't improve suspension control, but it will make it a lot more profitable!!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The cars are ugly<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> with you on that one!!!
Basically, cars used to break down a lot more than they do now!!
you only have to look at the differences in reliability between carburettor based systems and EFI systems. Granted, a carb system is easier to fix, but you also need to do it a lot more often ( anyone ever had a pierburg carb, and what about the old lucas mechanical PI system[}:)]?)
Electronic faults nearly always stem from the same 2 things- dodgy connections, and dirty sensors.
An electronic control system should be a lot more reliable, but I think the main reason it's on the C5 is because electronic compononts are ridiculously cheap to make- thats why a modern solid state TV is a lot cheaper in relative terms than an old valve one.
It won't improve suspension control, but it will make it a lot more profitable!!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The cars are ugly<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> with you on that one!!!
Oh yes!
The XM was available, at least up until 1994 with standard Citroën hydraulics - that's why I bought a diesel with non-hydactive - the least possible amount of electrics! And if you're interested in whats gone wrong during the 11 years its taken me to drive 530,000 km, its mostly electrics!
- windscreen washer motor
- alternator (true, only brushes, but twice, i.e. every 200,000 km)
- electric windows
- electric seat heaters
- auto half-beam (Swedish standard)
- wiring to rear hatch (centre brake light, screen heater)
- ABS system (wiring and connections)
On the other hand, the mechanics have been incredibly reliable:
- changed L.H. drive shaft last year, otherwise original
- original engine, head gasket changed after water hose rupture at high speed at 240,000 km
- original gearbox, clutch
- front wheel bearings changed once (both sides)
- original rear wheel bearings
- original hp pump, height correctors f&r, FDV, steering
- original cat, front silencer, (intermediate silencer removed at 200,000 km, replaced with stainless pipe) rear silencer cahnged once (but welded a lot!)
- rear suspension trailing arm bearing fitted with grese nipples from new, still original!
- interior trim still in first class condition - seats still support well (unlike the Saab 9000i I had as company car - seats shot after 100,000 km!)
Well, the list just goes on and on, either I have been extreemly lucky (mind you the car has ALWAYS been serviced on time) or the mechanics of the XM are absolutely unburstable.
I heard that Citroën have developed an electric car - God help us!!
//NiSk
The XM was available, at least up until 1994 with standard Citroën hydraulics - that's why I bought a diesel with non-hydactive - the least possible amount of electrics! And if you're interested in whats gone wrong during the 11 years its taken me to drive 530,000 km, its mostly electrics!
- windscreen washer motor
- alternator (true, only brushes, but twice, i.e. every 200,000 km)
- electric windows
- electric seat heaters
- auto half-beam (Swedish standard)
- wiring to rear hatch (centre brake light, screen heater)
- ABS system (wiring and connections)
On the other hand, the mechanics have been incredibly reliable:
- changed L.H. drive shaft last year, otherwise original
- original engine, head gasket changed after water hose rupture at high speed at 240,000 km
- original gearbox, clutch
- front wheel bearings changed once (both sides)
- original rear wheel bearings
- original hp pump, height correctors f&r, FDV, steering
- original cat, front silencer, (intermediate silencer removed at 200,000 km, replaced with stainless pipe) rear silencer cahnged once (but welded a lot!)
- rear suspension trailing arm bearing fitted with grese nipples from new, still original!
- interior trim still in first class condition - seats still support well (unlike the Saab 9000i I had as company car - seats shot after 100,000 km!)
Well, the list just goes on and on, either I have been extreemly lucky (mind you the car has ALWAYS been serviced on time) or the mechanics of the XM are absolutely unburstable.
I heard that Citroën have developed an electric car - God help us!!
//NiSk
Well the mk2 seems to be a little better (not so ugly). It's a mix of the ugly lines of the C5 mk1 with 'stolen' details from Audi (in the rear) and Mercedes (in the front)...
Of course, cannot be compared with the avantgarde and timeless style of the DS, the SM, and the CX at the time they were born.
In comparison with those the C5 is quite ordinary.
I agree with Tom - Peugeot and many equivalent brands are doing much better, including damn good suspension systems based on springs...
Of course, cannot be compared with the avantgarde and timeless style of the DS, the SM, and the CX at the time they were born.
In comparison with those the C5 is quite ordinary.
I agree with Tom - Peugeot and many equivalent brands are doing much better, including damn good suspension systems based on springs...