The next diesel engine for Citroen...

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 30 Sep 2004, 18:33

And if they have them then they ain't working on Citroens! Take a look at a Lexus Engine.
I saw one stripped at 270,000 miles. It was fine. And it had Gear driven camshafts!
That is real engineering!

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 30 Sep 2004, 18:36

And another thing, Nearly three litres of Diesel engine, using a six speed transmission. So it hasn't got any torque then. Sorry, this is sophistication for its own sake. No wonder Ford and PSA have lost their way of late.

Post by **Thunderbird** » 30 Sep 2004, 20:19

A Lexus engine? It couldn't be diesel - Lexus hasn't enter in that world yet, but these new engines may change their minds... One of the arguments of Lexus president for staying within petrol was that diesels are too noisy, have vibrations, and do not respond as a Lexus driver demands... Now, this new refinement solves those problems, even if the design demands a 6 or 7 speed transmission. What matters is the final result.
If petrol engines don't improve fast, soon there will be no interest in using them, except maybe the desire of owning something different from the crowd...

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:00

There was an interesting article in Diesel Car a while ago about car manufacturers trying to get diesels to behave more like petrol engines - so that they wouldn't need to have such a range of gearboxes etc. I believe it was Vanderwell who were doing the research. Looks like PSA are going the same way.
The big advantage of a diesel is that it lets you drive in a relaxed way, bags of low down torque, no need to rev the nuts off the engine, no need to change down 2 clicks before overtaking . . .
//NiSk

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:02

Petrol engines have had much more time spent on their development. The only reason for putting a diesel in a drivers' car is torque. Six speed boxes mean you haven't got any. QED.

PeterMann · Post by **PeterMann** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:40

I want to see a scavenged 2 stroke diesel in a Citroen. Effectively doubles the power from the displacement/weight by doubling the number of combustion cycles per rev.

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:47

Do think there's any chance that all the technology will some how stop the plip battery running out on that winters night / morning just as the worst rain storm comes over the works and the car park sercurity lights fail?

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:49

Or a stepped piston engine....see[url]http://users.breathe.com/prhooper/speng.htm[/urlI]
Apparently, there's now a diesel version.
On second thoughts, a bit too uncomplicated and not enough parts for a Citroen engineer......

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 30 Sep 2004, 21:51

http://users.breathe.com/prhooper/speng.htm
Damn technology! try again....

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 30 Sep 2004, 22:01

Thought I reconised the front page. This guys only up the road from me. There's a Vine yard next door aswell.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 30 Sep 2004, 22:08

Six speed gearboxes mean that you can have a very tall top gear for quiet fuel efficient cruising without ending up bogged down between gears as you're changing up and down through the box.

Post by **Thunderbird** » 30 Sep 2004, 23:11

This evolution is natural and a consequence of the technological options.
Still, this tendance is not new - In the 2.0Hdi you're forced to shift often, when compared to the 2.1td. In fact, the 2.0HDi behaves more like a petrol than a mechanical diesel.
This progress in diesel engines justifies the use of automatic transmissions, otherwise it will be unpleasant to drive.

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 01 Oct 2004, 01:14

Brother -in-law has an automatic diesel Ford Mondaeo (new) with all the bits and body pack. Goes like stink and drives like a top range saloon car. Top rate motor way muncher but good about town too. Still only 5 gears and I'm not sure about engine size but it's more than 2 litres.

ghostrider · Post by **ghostrider** » 01 Oct 2004, 02:33

if they can get 200brake at 7.1l/100k why cant they keep the 110 brake of the hdi but improve economy instead? I know modern engines produce more power more efficiently than the engines of 30 years ago, overall though the improvements in economy are nothing like as dramatic as the increase in power, but sooner or later someone is going to legislate the fun and speed out of motoring (have they done that already

)) ) if the rate at which we cosume oil is not improved. In all the years I've run my GTI turbo only once have I run for any length of time at 140mph +, I'd never want to deny anyone the adrenalin rush of such performance, but most days I get in my car to go to work, I work for myself so lugging capacity and economy are much more important to me on a day to day basis. I have two friends who have A6 2.5 turbo diesels, very quick, very refined and Very heavy on the juice. Modern technology has made the diesel more and more like a petrol engine not only in performance but also in economy. yet the HDI engines have shown that you can improve economy without reducing performance ( 0-60 times for xantia 1.9 vs 2.0 HDI are nearly the same according to the used car tests section of Autotrader)
________
PRONTO

madasafish · Post by **madasafish** » 01 Oct 2004, 02:41

I'm sorry Ghostrider: but your comments on diesel fuel economy do NOT apply to BMW engines.
Audi 2.5V6 engines are very noisy on startup: so much so I would be deafened in my garage on a cold morning.
Small diesels achieve >55mpg in overall use: show me an equivalent sized petrol car that can on a like for like basis.
I has an Audi A4 110bhp: very fast and >50mpg but very coarse. Comparing a Citroen 1.9 diesel to it : Audi scores 25% better economy, 50% more noise and coarseness...