ZX TD Starting problems

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 26 Sep 2004, 00:37

I have a Citroen ZX SX 1.9 TD R-Reg (1998) with 104k on the clock. The car starts fine when its cold (even before the light goes out dare i say). My problem is when its warmed up (when its been running for more than a minute or two). You have to crank the car over for quite a while and it will splutter to a start, or start then stop then splutter to start. I have had the car to the local diesel injection garage recently to have a few problems cured, but they didnt cure this one (it used to smoke a lot, and wasnt very quick or economical, all fixed). They say i dont need the injectors doing, the glow plugs are ok and couldnt help any further. Just wondering if theres anyone out there with any ideas. Thanks in advance for any help.

bikeboyz · Post by **bikeboyz** » 26 Sep 2004, 00:58

How long do you have to crank it for when warm? and what do you consider as warm?

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 26 Sep 2004, 01:04

Well, i consider warm to be any more than two minutes running (yer i know this is still cold - the problem gets worse the more the towards 90 you get on the temp gauge). You have to crank it over for a good 30 seconds come times, and i know this is far too long. My dad as a diesel bx (17TZD) and this starts straight away hot or cold, as does my mates zx 1.9d, and my old zx estate 1.9d. (hope all this blurb helps.)
Cheers.

bikeboyz · Post by **bikeboyz** » 26 Sep 2004, 22:44

I assume this does exactly the same if you wait for the glow plug light to go out?
You could check the stop solinoid on the pump is working correctly and not sticking. Not sure if it will make any difference but I recall on the Lucas/CAV pump there is a manual stop. What happens if you push it and stop the engine then restart on the key. I might be talking rot at this point but it worth a try. Other than logic stays it wont run without fuel or air or compression.

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 27 Sep 2004, 04:23

yes it does the same when you let the light go out, il have a try with the manual stop. cheers

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 27 Sep 2004, 21:04

What is the battery like? I seem to remember a while ago someone having hot starting problems which turned out to be a weak or wrong-sized battery. Explanation was that the increased compression of a warm engine slowed the cranking.
jeremy

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 30 Sep 2004, 22:57

Well ive tried the manual stop. No luck there. I believe the battery is ok (when I purchased the car, the battery was knackard, so I put a better one on, from an astra 1.7D) However, my mates just put a new one on his zx, so il see if i can pursuade him to let me try it. Thanks for the help so far...

bikeboyz · Post by **bikeboyz** » 07 Oct 2004, 01:07

Well I think this leaves the relay questionable, you need a multimeter, and take readings against the glow plugs and engine block to ensure they are getting current when they should be. Also take readings from the inputs to the relay from both the battery feed (may come from the starter or other high power area, and the output terminal, may worth be also examining the feed from the key. YOu can buy a meter for less than a tenner.

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 07 Oct 2004, 19:17

This sounds almost exactly like the hot start problem i had on my ZX.
Caused by a tiny air leak on the fuel system - is yours fitted with a primer bulb? if so when youpump it does it go hard? If not you have an air leak - have a look at the 3 way plastic block under the fuel pump, its possibly cracked (mine was). No longer available from Cit, but can be sorted using some jubelee clips and some silicone.
I know this reply is off target from the others, but its worth having a look as it could save you a few ££££ (replaced all rubber in my system with new for £25) - now starts up ok whenerver.

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 14 Oct 2004, 00:24

Well I think I have got to the bottom of the problem... The low water level warning light came on today on my way to Uni. I stopped and investigated, to notice hellish high pressure in the rad hoses. I slowly released the pressure to find most of the water had gone. I filled it up, and did the old Head gasket test... loads of bubbles. I was on the way home and yet again the light comes on. I took the car to my mechanic (local citroen specialist) and he confirms head gasket failure. Shame since it was only done in April, 5000 miles ago. So I guess it may be that thats caused my problem. Its going in tomorrow for repair. Il keep everyone posted.....

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 14 Oct 2004, 02:54

Sorry to hear that your head gasket has gone 5000 miles after it was last done. do you think it was done properly last time? Was any attention paid to the cooling system at that time?
What you obviously must do is stop it happening again and the usual advice to replace the theromstat, change the radiator or at least make sure it is 100% clean and sound and make sure the fans are working properly.
Unlike a BX you do have a temperature gauge. I presume that it has never shown any sign of overheating before?
Incidentally the original thermostat probably opened at 92 degrees. I think you will find that all the replacement ones open at 82 degrees - this seems to be a retrospective mod and the new stats I have bought for our ZX 1.9D (94) and 89 BX TD have both been rated so.
jeremy

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 14 Oct 2004, 22:20

Well im assuming it wasnt done correctly last time, but since it was done before I bought it, I cant be sure. I have just changed the thermostat. The temperature never really goes above 90 unless stood, when the fan kicks in. So as compared to other ZX's ive owned / know of, it doesnt overheat. The radiator seems ok (no cool spots). I just hope everything will be ok when I get it back (hopefully tomorrow). Il keep you posted.

wilkobob · Post by **wilkobob** » 16 Oct 2004, 16:01

Well, I now believe my citroen zx was no longer an ebay bargain. I went to the garage last night to pick it up from having its head gasket done, to be told that there was nothing wrong with the head or the gasket. The problem appears to be block related (mechanic told me could be porous block). So... im left with a few options now, that is break the car for spares and try to reclaim some cash (spent £830 on car, £300 on clutch, £200 on other servicing parts, and I now owe my mechanic £300 for the work hes carried out so far). Find a replacement engine and £500 to have it fitted, or have this one overhauled for about £800. Either way im out of pocket big style and being a student having no money left, and needing a car for everyday use to travel 50 mile round trip to university. WHEEEY HEEEEY. Im beginning to feel I might not like citroens anymore...

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 17 Oct 2004, 02:47

Perhaps someone can explain to me how a block becomes porous yet can be repaired?
I've heard of cracked liners but these diesels don't have liners. If the bores are cracked and a liner is proposed as a repair then this smacks of bodgery but might work. Certainly not worth doing on an engine as common as these are.
Jeremy

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 17 Oct 2004, 13:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wilkobob

(mechanic told me could be porous block)I might not like citroens anymore...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I too am puzzled by how a cast block can suddenly develop porous tendancies unless it is badly coroded?
Either junk the car or get a second hand engine (and find a cheaper mechanic as £500 to fit is well chingey and overpriced) - If i hated a manufacturer after every time a car went west I think i would only be driving Mercedes cars now (and thats only because i have never owned one!) It does seem a shame to scrap the car especialy as you have spent so much on it. My ZX is getting me down, but only because its too noisy to drive with any comfort due to the shonky suspension and subframe - engine wise its perfect and the Cit / Pug diesels do go on and on and on and on if maintained. Like anything, bits wear out.