Xantia Activa

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bernieeccles
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Xantia Activa

Post by bernieeccles »

[font=Arial]Hi guys,first post on here,so here goes.
For a strange reason,I fancy buying a Xantia Activa.I am drawn to this model because of it's fancy suspension system.For the same reason,the sensible side of me says NO,don't because with all those extra hydraulics and computer thingy's,something WILL go wrong and it will cost an arm and a leg to fix.
So my question is this.
Am I being unduly worried or is the Activa a can of worms best left unopened.
By the way,I have no problems doing work myself.I don't like doing it these days,but do when I have to.
Any Activa stories good or bad out there
tomsheppard
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Post by tomsheppard »

If you are buying it because you fancy the challenge of its labyrinthine complexity, you'll have a lot of fun. Naturally You'll pull off all the black boxes, remove any corrosion from connectors and seal the lot against water leaks with conformal coating and silicone grease, replacing any mildly suspicious connector with a properly crimped one, crimped on with the correct tool. You'll be doing the complete hydraurincage treatment on delivery, change the pump belt and reseat the pressure regulator ball valve. You'll consider changing the accumulator spheres. Then you will be able to enjoy the car until paranoia causes you to think that something is wrong. Good ones are very much enjoyed by their owners but roll free ride has its price as the Activa can sometimes feel a little "disconnected" because you just don't get the same feedback. If you can hack the work involved in keeping it up together, it is not too expensive.
Thunderbird

Post by Thunderbird »

Bernie, I agree with Tom in most aspects. I will just emphasis three points I really consider the main lines here:
1. Xantia Activa is an unique car (and a classic, on universal cars bibles), providing unknown driving pleasures and the ability to take any corner with a smile in your face.
2. Go for the V6 (194Hp), preferably Mk2 Xantia. This is the only engine that makes justice to the chassis/activa suspension. In fact, even with the V6, you'll conclude a few more horse power would be welcome. Also the V6 is the most reliable engine, going through 300.000 miles easily.
3. If road is wet/dirty, you must drive it gently (no ESP or any other electronic compensations).
4. After some time of owning the car, like Tom stated, most peolpe is invaded by a sort of paranoia regarding possible suspension failure. They find themselves thinking "I think the suspension is harder...", "Don't you feel a strange noise?", "There must be some problem with the suspension...".
mbunting
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Post by mbunting »

In the winter, I 'feel' the road by being at one with the car ( hippy ! ), and judging by the amount of body roll and grip as to whether I'm going to skid, and what the road is like.
Sounds like the Activa would remove some of this feeling, is there any way to turn off the Activa computer and make it into a normal Xantia in the winter ?
tomsheppard
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Post by tomsheppard »

Referring to previous recent threads on the topic of Activae, I maintain my contention that although the turn-in of the Activa is both sharp and surefooted, its ultimate grip is a matter of centrifugal force+ gravity. Because there is little weight transfer into the ground, it may even have a lower ultimate cornering speed than a standard car(But you'd need to be Michael S to find out!)Certainly the repeated cautions from owners regarding wet weather behaviour suggest that there is little warning that the limit is about to be breached.(Have you ever got an X1/9 to go fast enough to let go? if so, you'll know what I mean!) Winter driving, as our Scandinavian correspondents will tell you is about anticipation and gentle driver inputs. Feel is vital.
If the Activa's feedback makes it inferior in roadholding to the standard car more than half the time, I wonder whether it is worth having the clever ride control.
Then again, those who profess to be able to drive high performance cars, actively express their dislike of cars where the steering and attitude are controlled largely by the anti-roll bars.
OF COURSE NONE OF THESE ARGUMENTS HAS ANY VALUE AT ALL IF YOU DRIVE AT SAFE SPEEDS!
I suppose you pay your money and make your choice. I don't think that the Activa would be mine.
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Post by bxbodger »

Its worth getting one just for the novelty value if it's cheap, just don't pay too much for it-there's very little demand for this sort of thing- it never took off commercially- other than amongst the sort of weirdo's who like Citroens. As to handling, grip, etc, most hydraulic Citroens feel pretty disconnected from the road anyway- you can have a blowout and hardly notice it, so little is the drama, and if you have any biking experience or learnt on cross-plies, you will know what sort of conditions it's going to let go in, and drive accordingly.
ItDontGo
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Post by ItDontGo »

I hope this doesn't sound patronising or arrogant but from several years of motorsport/mechanical sport at the front real understanding of feel and grip has nothing to do with roll.
As anyone who has driven a single seater or a kart or even a bike seriously (in other words not just few laps) will confirm 'feel' for grip is like balancing. If you stand on one leg you will topple one way or another and you will know this from what your eyes and middle ears tell you. It's a similar story when cornering on something with wheels. You need to pick a line and then watch and feel the rotation of the car as to how you deviate from this line. The real understanding doesn't come from the torque at the steering wheel as you find in a road car. In fact if you drive a single seater after driving a road car you will think it has no feel as there is very little of this torque.
With regards to Activas. Road cars have to be able respond safely to bad driving and having play in the suspension and lots of roll is part of this. Plus they have lots of castor so that the steering wheel self-centres and gives this steering feel that motorists need (as generally they dont pick lines through a corner and try and follow them as a you would in mechanical sports).
The reason that roll adds safety is because to get the most out of a car you need to be so smooth and gentle turning in to a corner and by having a car which rolls a lot partly isolates the chasis from ragged driving. If you lose this then I would not be surprised that people are getting caught out in Activas because the car is not smoothing out their bad driving.
The only reason I can see for have roll free suspension on a road car is it allows the car to change direction quicker. But why do you need that on the road. In fact why do you need most performance cars on the road.
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Post by bxbodger »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But why do you need that on the road. In fact why do you need most performance cars on the road.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Because as the old saying goes, racing improves the breed- performance features filter down int safety features- disc brakes being a prime example. Imagine all those pipe smoking codgers in the fifties looking at disc brakes on road going Jags and saying "what on earth do you need those for?"
The same goes for traction control, ABS (although personally I am not a big fan of this), radial tyres, independant suspension, injection, the list is endless. All this stuff appears on the performance cars first-remember when "GTI" or "mexico" meant something?- it all filtered down into normal cars making them a lot better; I learnt to drive in the seventies and would not want to go back to cross plies, drums all round, and leaf springs!
Thunderbird

Post by Thunderbird »

(Almost) no body-roll is something positive, in terms of security and driving pleasure. Together with last generation ESP, active steering, amongst other artifacts, really turns cars in spaceships.
Take Mercedes and Porsche as two examples:
- Only top-of-line Mercedes like the CL600, have the semi-active ABC system that reduces the body-roll angle almost to zero.
- Next generation 911 Porsches will have finaly an active suspension with the same effect.
The main advantage is simple - these new 911's have a reduced body-roll compared to previous 911, and get much more comfortable on bad roads. In fact they get more comfortable than common family cars, passing by holes without feeling them.
Without electronics, there's no active adaptation to road type and driving, and there's a compromise - sport cars are uncomfortable and comfortable cars are unsportive.
Only electronic controlled suspension can allow superb comfort together with maximum safety.
Don't mention reliability - indeed it is more reliable not to have a starting-engine, for instance, and to start the engine with some physical exercise, like in the 20's...
tomsheppard
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Post by tomsheppard »

Whoa! hold on there! Radial tyres- Michelin developed them for the Citroen DS!
bxbodger
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Post by bxbodger »

Which exactly proves the point!- no doubt in the fifties the DS was considered something completely different and alien from the normal run of the mill zephyr, cresta, or westminster!
This sort of technology is aspirational- people thinking "I want some of that", and also encouraging other manufacturers to go to radials too, for the benefit of all.
Daniel B
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Post by Daniel B »

Quote "The only reason I can see for have roll free suspension on a road car is it allows the car to change direction quicker. But why do you need that on the road."
Perhaps to avoid an accident, steer round a child who runs into the road....?
Quote "In fact why do you need most performance cars on the road. "
I don't think anyone pretends there is a need for it, but there is a desire - people desire things, it's human nature.
Otherwise we would all still be driving horses & carts/Model T's/Austin Allegros etc etc
Dan
Thunderbird

Post by Thunderbird »

Citroen was indeed innovative with the DS and also with the Xantia Activa.
However that role of innovation is now undertaken by manufacturers like Mercedes and Renault.
Nowdays Citroen merely incorporates advances of others. It went from leader to spectator...
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Post by RichardW »

There was an article on Top Gear a few years back about braking distances. Clarkson did an emergency stop in an Anglia - which was amusing! He then tested several cars and came to the conclusion that if you were step out in front of a car, make sure it was a fast one, as they have the brakes to stop. IIRC the 911 stopped in about 1/2 the Highway Code distance with no drama whatsoever. The Discovery on the other hand.....
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Post by bxbodger »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Allegros etc etc
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Nothing wrong with Allegro's!!!!
Hydragas, four speed auto in the seventies, quartic steering wheel now popular on F1 cars, starsky and hutch stripe on the 1750 SS, and on top of all that I believe it was the first british production car to have a printed circuit board behind the instrument panel- a wonderful and much maligned motor- I had 3 and loved them all!
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